MOCCA STUDIO | Logo Critique

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Levi

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That branding is part of marketing? How is this wrong?
Why don't you just accept that you've made a mistake rather than trying to change your argument. You've not been saying that branding is part of marketing, you've been saying marketing comes before branding when it doesn't :rolleyes:
 

fisicx

Active Member
Yes it does. Marketing is the whole thing. The research you do to develop the branding is part of marketing.
 

hankscorpio

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Staff member
You're confusing market research with marketing.

  1. Invent a product/idea/consumer need
  2. You conduct market research at the time of developing a product to understand general needs of the public.
  3. You enhance the product on the research.
  4. You develop the brand on the research.
  5. You then develop the marketing/marketing strategy, and marketing material based on 1-4.
That's not the same as saying Marketing comes first - you know you're twisting your words, and looks like on purpose.

Market research and marketing are not the same thing.
 

Levi

Moderator
Staff member
  1. Invent a product/idea/consumer need
  2. You conduct market research at the time of developing a product to understand general needs of the public.
They can also go the other way round, I've had to design things (a physical product) based on market research saying 'we need this', but like we've both said market research is not marketing.
 

hankscorpio

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True - you can do market research first. But you need a product at either of the stages.
And it can be picked apart further - but was keeping it simple.
Either way - you can do all the market research and product samples you like - you're not going to do any marketing without the thing branded.

I can't imagine even in 1900 that Coca Cola just said - we did our research (check), we did our bottle (check), fuck the branding, don't need that, nobody cares, let's do the marketing! Where's the logo? What colour will we use? What font?
 

Levi

Moderator
Staff member
I can't imagine even in 1900 that Coca Cola just said - we did our research (check), we did our bottle (check), fuck the branding, don't need that, nobody cares, let's do the marketing! Where's the logo? What colour will we use? What font?
Yeah and it's pretty obvious that the coca cola logo, even in 1900, was 'designed' due to all the flourishes etc on the letters
 

hankscorpio

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Staff member
It's actually one of the best brands ever created, it has stood the test of time for over a 100 years.
It even changed Santas coat from Green to Red! Who does that? Great branding does that!

Actually that's a misconception - my bad - there's prior work based ona tiny bit of research. Goes to show don't believe everything you learn in college 25 years ago :D
 

Levi

Moderator
Staff member
It's actually one of the best brands ever created, it has stood the test of time for over a 100 years.
It even changed Santas coat from Green to Red! Who does that? Great branding does that!

Actually that's a misconception - my bad - there's prior work based ona tiny bit of research. Goes to show don't believe everything you learn in college 25 years ago :D
Maybe not santa but they did have a 1 year 'trial' with a different design for the logo lol
 

fisicx

Active Member
You're confusing market research with marketing.

Market research and marketing are not the same thing.
Market research is PART of marketing.


I'm not confused. I know exactly what marketing is.
 

fisicx

Active Member
True - you can do market research first. But you need a product at either of the stages.
No, your market research will identify if there is a market for the product. You don't tool up a factory and make something without market research first.

Nothing is being twisted. Marketing encompasses a huge range of activities.
 

hankscorpio

Moderator
Staff member
Market research is PART of marketing.


I'm not confused. I know exactly what marketing is.

You clearly don't.
 

hankscorpio

Moderator
Staff member
No, your market research will identify if there is a market for the product. You don't tool up a factory and make something without market research first.

Nothing is being twisted. Marketing encompasses a huge range of activities.
Of course it will. That's what I have been telling you.
Market research is not the same as marketing - in the context you proposed.

Yes, I have been telling you all along that marketing encompasses more.
But you cannot and will not be able to do any marketing without having a brand.
You can do market research, you do fiddle with your thumbs if you like - it doesn't change a thing.
Without a Brand you cannot do the marketing.
Market research is different to marketing.
 

Levi

Moderator
Staff member
Fisicx... sorry but it's become incredibly clear that you do not understand the topic well enough to argue about it, so maybe it's time for you to stop trying to argue with people that do understand the topic and have to deal with it on a regular basis.....
 

hankscorpio

Moderator
Staff member
I think it's clear that it's talking about two different aspects of the same thing.

I've thought about it a great deal. And still feel that there is an element of division in the terminology.

I've been involved in the development of a new product before. And yes marketing were involved from the get go.
The product was pitched by an internal employee. They went for it.

Marketing organised a bunch of different user groups to come in - paid for of course - who went through the product and got to ask questions etc.
This provided feedback to the team development. Of course these users were knowledgeable on the subject so were able to give valuable feedback.

Next stage was the development of the UI and the UX. For this part they got in 10 focus groups. 5 knowledgable on the subject the UI/UX was searching and 5 not knoweledgeable. Each group had 20 people.
Each person was give a serious of tasks to complete using the UI/UX that was in development. The UI/UX was a just a skin - nothing fancy at this stage.

Each group was asked to give feedback on how they found their tasks.

This enabled the UI and UX teams to work on feedback on usabilty of the software and the UI and their UX.


This had nothing to do with branding at this stage.

They were just getting a feel of it from people who understood the subject and who didn't, if they liked it or didn't like it etc.


The next part was far more involved for me - having divided the Ui and UX into usable portions of what will work and won't work and how the UI and UX was going to work, I was tasked with branding it.


This was very complex, I had to consider the entire scope of the project, not just from a UI or UX perspective. And the feedback from the Market didn't really concern me. That was all UI and UX focused and data and content etc.


Once it was decided this product was viable - I was then able to sit down with the Management and talk to them.
They had to tell me the audience, the market, the competitors, and all the other things.

I had to go away and develop 3 different brand ideas for the product.


Once I had the branding sorted.

Only then was I able to send it on to the marketing team for them to decide the marketing strategy.

Once they had all the pieces from conversations with the branding team - considerations they didn't even know they had to consider.

The marketing team was able to use the branding - send the branding book to anyone on the planet and get the same branded marketing materials generated anywhere.


But there's a huge division between the Market Research / Branding / Marketing.

They are all the same thing to some people - but there's distinct models behind them.
 

fisicx

Active Member
I agree with much of what you posted. But you tag marketing at the end of the process when it is the whole thing. It’s what I do for a living. Read the definitions and will all say the same thing.
 

hankscorpio

Moderator
Staff member
I agree with much of what you posted. But you tag marketing at the end of the process when it is the whole thing. It’s what I do for a living. Read the definitions and will all say the same thing.
But it's not the whole thing - that's the point. It's a process involving multiple disciplines.
And you cannot have marketing - in the way we talk about it - without branding.

You can 100% have branding without doing any marketing.
You can not have marketing without doing any branding.
 

fisicx

Active Member
I’m told you are all experienced designers. Talk to experienced Marketing people. They define this role differently to how you describe it.

And you can have marketing without branding. The stuff I sell doesn’t have any branding.
 
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