bungle1977
Member
I guess it will depend on the rates I will charge. I asked my boss this question
"Can I work for other agencies? Recruitment agencies? Other clients?" He said yes
They really do have us pushed into a corner
In a slight quandry
- Thread starter bungle1977
- Start date
I guess it will depend on the rates I will charge. I asked my boss this question
"Can I work for other agencies? Recruitment agencies? Other clients?" He said yes
They really do have us pushed into a corner
ARRIVALS
Well-Known Member
Well yea, of course it'll depend on the rates you charge and the rates every other freelancer charges, as well as work experience with you and every other freelancer they look at and have worked with before etc. Too many factors there to guarantee you freelance work with them.
It seems to me as if they really want rid of all of the designers there, and would probably prefer not to even bother with a redundancy pay out. Just to make it seem better than it actually is they've told you they may offer freelance work, which is pretty doubtful when you consider this big company taking over yours probably has it's own bunch of freelancers they trust and work with already.
I really would take the payout and either a) find a new job or b) set yourself up as a freelancer.
Not very ethical but as they've given you no choice in this matter, get in touch with clients you've built up good relationships with and undercut your current employer.
It seems to me as if they really want rid of all of the designers there, and would probably prefer not to even bother with a redundancy pay out. Just to make it seem better than it actually is they've told you they may offer freelance work, which is pretty doubtful when you consider this big company taking over yours probably has it's own bunch of freelancers they trust and work with already.
I really would take the payout and either a) find a new job or b) set yourself up as a freelancer.
Not very ethical but as they've given you no choice in this matter, get in touch with clients you've built up good relationships with and undercut your current employer.
bungle1977
Member
This is a letter that was sent, I have taken out names etc
Good to see you this morning and very excited about you guys moving in.
I have email -------- at ---------, - -------- - I think to start with we will talk to our guys as they are so familiar with the layout and structure and I wouldn't know where to start by explaining it to a new person, but that can all change in the future if need be. ------, I will get ------- to call you today if possible.
--------- will be on the case with the phone system on Monday, the ideal scenario being that there is a split line, with ------- coming in on one and ----- on the other and -------- can answer the phones on both our behalf. Therefore there is a dedicated ------- Line coming in and 4 direct dials upstairs.
As discussed we would like to retain 3 desks for our freelancers upstairs, we can work with you to re-organise the layout as you wish and clear cupboards etc to accommodate your stuff! One stationary area for both would work too.
We are totally committed to becoming a partnership once you have moved in and want to make that journey as smooth and enjoyable as possible so please fire all the request to us and we will accommodate and shout if anything is not possible.
The meeting room downstairs is at your disposal, we run a diary system as I mentioned and we would like the freedom to continue to use the meeting area upstairs when it is not in use by your team.
I need to speak to the Landlord about your name on the door downstairs etc, so bare with me as I make that call to explain what is happening.
We will sort out the keys for you, not sure how many more we are allowed but will confirm on Monday.
I am happy to help you move in over the weekend or stay late to help so lets get the actual date confirmed.
I suggest we have a drink next week with your team or whenever you are officially in so that we can all bond.
Have a good weekend and call with anything you need.
Good to see you this morning and very excited about you guys moving in.
I have email -------- at ---------, - -------- - I think to start with we will talk to our guys as they are so familiar with the layout and structure and I wouldn't know where to start by explaining it to a new person, but that can all change in the future if need be. ------, I will get ------- to call you today if possible.
--------- will be on the case with the phone system on Monday, the ideal scenario being that there is a split line, with ------- coming in on one and ----- on the other and -------- can answer the phones on both our behalf. Therefore there is a dedicated ------- Line coming in and 4 direct dials upstairs.
As discussed we would like to retain 3 desks for our freelancers upstairs, we can work with you to re-organise the layout as you wish and clear cupboards etc to accommodate your stuff! One stationary area for both would work too.
We are totally committed to becoming a partnership once you have moved in and want to make that journey as smooth and enjoyable as possible so please fire all the request to us and we will accommodate and shout if anything is not possible.
The meeting room downstairs is at your disposal, we run a diary system as I mentioned and we would like the freedom to continue to use the meeting area upstairs when it is not in use by your team.
I need to speak to the Landlord about your name on the door downstairs etc, so bare with me as I make that call to explain what is happening.
We will sort out the keys for you, not sure how many more we are allowed but will confirm on Monday.
I am happy to help you move in over the weekend or stay late to help so lets get the actual date confirmed.
I suggest we have a drink next week with your team or whenever you are officially in so that we can all bond.
Have a good weekend and call with anything you need.
I get that but if they made a tax-free redundancy payment to someone on the Friday and had them back in the fold doing the same work on a freelance basis the following Monday the taxman would probably want to take an interest.
That sounds like a fair assessment to me.
bungle1977
Member
I guess there's no choice then. Hand in my resignation (which I have now been asked to do) and go freelance. Shit scared now, especially as I will be resigning for no apparent reason...
ARRIVALS
Well-Known Member
Resigning is different to accepting redundancy. I'm not sure how it works but I'd definitely get something official down to say you're accepting the redundancy because if you simply just resign, they might find some mental loophole and not give you the payout.
Always a pessimist, me.
Always a pessimist, me.
bungle1977
Member
My boss can't accept my redundancy so I can assume that if I did they either won't pay it or I won't be able to come back. I think my hands are tied on this one. Have also been asked to hand in a letter of resignation and that my role as freelancer/subcontractor will start February 17.
Moominbaby
Member
This is not legal surely!?! they can't make you quit your job, if they can't employ you anymore then they can either pay you redundancy or sack you and face an unfair dismissal case.
Your hands are not tied!
If they don't want you on the staff they either have to make your post (that's your post - not you)redundant or sack you with good reason: being asked to submit your resignation is simply a means for them to take zero responsibility and demonstrate that leaving the job was your call: DO NOT DO IT.
It looks like what's happening here is that they are eliminating the overheads associated with employing you (and, by further association, the benefits and security you currently enjoy) so that they can casually retain you on the cheap (Note for future reference: freelance rates ought to be approx. an additional one-third to one-half more than your billable [not take home] hourly rate in full-time employment).
Ask what they imagine will happen if you choose not to accept the invitation to resign and, if you don't like the answer, take legal advice.
It looks like what's happening here is that they are eliminating the overheads associated with employing you (and, by further association, the benefits and security you currently enjoy) so that they can casually retain you on the cheap (Note for future reference: freelance rates ought to be approx. an additional one-third to one-half more than your billable [not take home] hourly rate in full-time employment).
Ask what they imagine will happen if you choose not to accept the invitation to resign and, if you don't like the answer, take legal advice.
As Dave says above, this sounds very dodgy to me, seek legal advice.
bungle1977
Member
I'm just asking NABS for their advice. Hopefully they might say something soon.
bungle1977
Member
Have found out today that this company that we are sharing with has bought us and it could possibly be their idea for us to go freelance
TUPE is your friend (look it up).
bungle1977
Member
Thanks for that. Have been reading various urls but not too sure how to apply. Can I apply personally? Or does the business have to do this? Little bit confused.
Employment protection during business transfers and takeovers (TUPE) : Directgov - Employment
... but take proper advice.
... but take proper advice.
(Now I have a bit more time): I'm no employment lawyer but mention TUPE to whoever is advising you as something to investigate/bear in mind. I don't believe it's something anyone has to apply for as such; it's rather an aspect of employment law that must be observed and applied in circumstances like those you describe (there are exceptions but I understand that it's basically the general rule).
Good luck and let us know how you get on.
Good luck and let us know how you get on.
bungle1977
Member
Just had a half hour chat to my boss and I genuinely believe he has been trick into this by the company who has bought us and I don't blame him for anything, he is trying to save his business and I reckon if you are desperate you will do anything.
I told him about the resignation letter and he seemed shocked that it was illegal and that the company initiated the whole thing. I don't want to let him down because I think quite frankly he is going through enough as it is. Have advised him to have a plan B and C, D, E and F and don't let them have any opportunity to close any loopholes.
I told him about the resignation letter and he seemed shocked that it was illegal and that the company initiated the whole thing. I don't want to let him down because I think quite frankly he is going through enough as it is. Have advised him to have a plan B and C, D, E and F and don't let them have any opportunity to close any loopholes.
bungle1977
Member
A quick development
The company that has "bought" is actual fact hasn't. Which is a relief.
The company has also said either we resigned (forcibly) or the deal is off.
We have given them an ultimatum, employ us as full time employees or the deal is off. I will show if they value us as workers and will not drop us like bricks. If they don't accept we will all muck in or find another deal. Hope this will work.
The company that has "bought" is actual fact hasn't. Which is a relief.
The company has also said either we resigned (forcibly) or the deal is off.
We have given them an ultimatum, employ us as full time employees or the deal is off. I will show if they value us as workers and will not drop us like bricks. If they don't accept we will all muck in or find another deal. Hope this will work.