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Printing Mistake....


#1
Hi,

I wondered if anyone could offer me some advice..

I recently placed an order with a printing company (I have used the company for years) I ordered 10,000 A5 double sided flyers. I sent two pieces of artwork …”YouthFront.PDF and “YouthBack.PDF". When I received the flyers the artwork was the same on both sides. This was my fault - I had (accidentally) sent two pieces of identical artwork to the printers. I have no idea how this happened - but it did.

Anyway, the print company sent the job to print and I now have double-sided flyers with the same artwork front and back.. In my opinion the company should've contacted me to ensure I intended to order flyers that had the same artwork on both sides. I feel that if I wanted identical artwork front and back - I would’ve just sent one piece of artwork not two.

Does anyone know whether or not I can do anything about this? … the printers are being very unsympathetic. They have messed up many of my orders over the years and each time I have been very understanding - but the company in question are being uncompromising. I was hoping they might offer a discount as I partially feel they are to blame for not double checking with me before sending to print..

Is there a code of conduct or any consumer rights I can follow or would this be considered as entirely my own fault?

Thanks so much

Lili
 

hankscorpio

Moderator
Staff member
#2
It's 100% your fault.

Although when I did prepress and saw something like this I always contacted the customer.

Did you send a sample of what was to be printed? Y/N
Did you ask for a proof? Y/N
Did you receive a proof? Y/N
Did you ask printing company to check your artwork? Y/N
Did you ask them to proofread your documents? Y/N

If you answered No to any of those questions then it's your responsibility.

To be honest, if it was me I'd have questioned it. But in today's modern workflow I doubt the files were even opened. Most likely the files go into a "hot folder" and are imposed and plated and sent to press without much human intervention.


You sent the artwork, it's your responsibility to ensure it's all correct.

What you should do in future is

Send a mockup of your job
Always ask for a proof
Ask for someone on their end to proof the printed job

I've even gotten to the stage of accepting PDFs and I'll email and phone any contacts on the document to enure they are correct.

It's crazy how much artwork I receive and I dial the number on there and it's the wrong phone number, wrong email address, wrong web address.


You need to take ownership here and accept it was your fault. The printing company asks you to sign a document that basically says you've sent the correct artwork and agreed for it to be printed as is.

You've signed a binding contract. The only thing that could get you a reprint is if there is something fundamentally wrong with the print:

Is the ink density high enough (black is black not grey etc)?
Is it cut straight (no wonky edges or anything?)
Was there offset (when the pages are drying sitting on top of each other the ink and transfer from one document to another while they are drying)?
Did anything funky happen with colours or hues etc?

If you can spot any printing error on them then you can get a free reprint.


Being honest, I think the printing company should offer you a discount, as they should have realised this was an error, but they'd be very generous in offering this.

You say they've messed up your orders before, how so? If so then maybe bring this up with them that you've let them away with things before.

But I'd be sure to bring up only the cases where you were not at fault in anyway at all.
 

Stationery Direct

Administrator
Staff member
#3
Completely agree with above, a lot of online printers only ensure the file being supplied can be printed and no further checks are made (this of course is as a result of probably a really cheap price being paid, compared to a local printer who may make the checks but charge twice as much, you can't have everything), even if checked some people do have the same artwork printed both sides so not necessarily something that would be flagged. Really the onus is on you to ensure what is being uploaded is correct.

Although as above a decent printer would run them again at cost price to help out, at least we would. If they have messed many orders up maybe it's time for a change, give us a try: Stationery Direct Printing
 

Paul Murray

Moderator
Staff member
#4
You should have checked the files before you clicked send. Whilst it's nice to expect that the printer will check up on potential errors, it's not their responsibility. You supplied them artwork to print, they printed it.

They have messed up many of my orders over the years and each time I have been very understanding.
Why would you continue to use them if they repeatedly mess up orders? I'd be very wary of using any printer who messed up orders a second time.
 
#6
Thanks so much for all of the above comments. Very useful

The question is - why if there is so many mistakes over time, has nobody every double checked the work, on either end?
Last year I ordered 170gsm silk A4 posters online. The printers were going to send me 170gsm gloss - They had written the wrong stock on the invoice. I flagged this up and the order was amended at the last minute - which saved the company money in having to do a reprint... It wasn't a big deal because I resolved it before the posters were sent out.

Later that year the printer sent me some posters and the colours were washed out. They explained that this was because the A2 posters they printed for me were run on a different machine to the A4's so they came out differently. Initially they blamed me and said it was a problem with the artwork - however we agreed that, that was impossible because the A2’s were dramatically different to the A4’s - it took quite a lot of back and forth contact before we came to a resolution - this resulted in a 2 week delay, numerous emails and phone-calls, I had to send them samples. They didn’t compensate me in anyway for the delay, the postage or offer me a discount on future orders - but this wasn't something I could double check before they arrived.

Once I ordered some flyers and posters from them and they forgot to cut off the bleed, but I didn’t ask for a reprint. They looked fine with the bleed left on. The posters were also missing from that order and this delayed me getting the print to my client on time. I wasn’t compensated in anyway. - and again it wasn't something I could check on until arrival.

I paid £20 for a printed proof of a booklet. I ordered it before 12am so it would come the next day but it arrived 2 days later. When the proof came it had duplicate pages in the middle. I sent an email to request a correct proof and I sent amended artwork. They sent me a new proof using the old artwork. I emailed them again and asked for a new proof using the correct artwork, 4 days later, I received a proof which had the pages in the wrong order and was missing the back page. The final proof they sent - had the trim still attached. I didn’t get a refund for the proof, or any kind of discount offered off my order.

Last week, I ordered a banner and some flyers - I sent the artwork all together via wetransfer. I received the flyers the next day, but no banner. I followed this up and received no apology. They told me they had not received the artwork. I explained that I had confirmation the artwork had been downloaded. The banner I ordered to arrive on Thursday actually arrived on Saturday. I wasn’t compensated in anyway.

Additionally I arrived in Leeds yesterday. I am doing a project there - Some of the print has been taken out of the box and distributed - however I noticed that the print I took out of the box today is a different colour to the other print.

The reason why these things have never been "double-checked on my end" is because those problems are not in anyway my fault or resolvable at my end. The reason why I continued to use that printers is because they are quick - I have placed at least 50 orders with them and the above are the only problems I have. I know that I need to find someone else. I suppose I was hoping that on this occasion the printers would offer me a discount on 'my mistake' because of the amount of times I had forgiven them for theirs..
 

hankscorpio

Moderator
Staff member
#7
Thanks so much for all of the above comments. Very useful



Last year I ordered 170gsm silk A4 posters online. The printers were going to send me 170gsm gloss - They had written the wrong stock on the invoice. I flagged this up and the order was amended at the last minute - which saved the company money in having to do a reprint... It wasn't a big deal because I resolved it before the posters were sent out.
Ok, so they had the wrong paper stock. That might not be a mistake, but maybe the only paper in stock at the time you placed the order. Sometimes paper stocks are substituted by non-graphic designers/printers, called estimators, and gloss is close to silk and the estimator felt it was ok for the print run.

Although, no excuse. Wrong stock = reprint.

Later that year the printer sent me some posters and the colours were washed out. They explained that this was because the A2 posters they printed for me were run on a different machine to the A4's so they came out differently. Initially they blamed me and said it was a problem with the artwork - however we agreed that, that was impossible because the A2’s were dramatically different to the A4’s - it took quite a lot of back and forth contact before we came to a resolution - this resulted in a 2 week delay, numerous emails and phone-calls, I had to send them samples. They didn’t compensate me in anyway for the delay, the postage or offer me a discount on future orders - but this wasn't something I could double check before they arrived.
A4s can run off digital printers, which are not the same as litho. Most digital run up to A3 size, and after that it has to be printed litho.

There is a different colour profile determined for digital and litho - which accounts for the colour mishap.

Should the printer know this - yes, absolutely!

Once I ordered some flyers and posters from them and they forgot to cut off the bleed, but I didn’t ask for a reprint. They looked fine with the bleed left on. The posters were also missing from that order and this delayed me getting the print to my client on time. I wasn’t compensated in anyway. - and again it wasn't something I could check on until arrival.
This rings alarm bells, if you have bleed then you should have crop marks. If it was digital then they printed to a digital printed that printed to the edge of the sheet.

How do you know they didn't trim off the bleed? Did it still have the crop marks on it? Or was it printed to the edge?

I paid £20 for a printed proof of a booklet. I ordered it before 12am so it would come the next day but it arrived 2 days later. When the proof came it had duplicate pages in the middle. I sent an email to request a correct proof and I sent amended artwork. They sent me a new proof using the old artwork. I emailed them again and asked for a new proof using the correct artwork, 4 days later, I received a proof which had the pages in the wrong order and was missing the back page. The final proof they sent - had the trim still attached. I didn’t get a refund for the proof, or any kind of discount offered off my order.
I would have demanded a refund citing the above reasons.

But, you have duplicated pages in the middle, and you sent new artwork and they didn't review.

Queries crop up about the printing company. By now you should be wary - after quote 1 I would be fuming.

Last week, I ordered a banner and some flyers - I sent the artwork all together via wetransfer. I received the flyers the next day, but no banner. I followed this up and received no apology. They told me they had not received the artwork. I explained that I had confirmation the artwork had been downloaded. The banner I ordered to arrive on Thursday actually arrived on Saturday. I wasn’t compensated in anyway.

Is wetransfer what they use normally to download files? Do they have another method?

No banner. No deliver. No excuses.

You need to get harder with them.

Additionally I arrived in Leeds yesterday. I am doing a project there - Some of the print has been taken out of the box and distributed - however I noticed that the print I took out of the box today is a different colour to the other print.
What other print? Who printed it? They did? If they did then there's serious quality control issues to be answered.

If you're comparing your prints, or onscreen then you have to think again, what is on screen, or in your own printer will almost never meet your colour/quality expectations.

This is why you need a colour proof delivered from the printers.

The reason why these things have never been "double-checked on my end" is because those problems are not in anyway my fault or resolvable at my end. The reason why I continued to use that printers is because they are quick - I have placed at least 50 orders with them and the above are the only problems I have. I know that I need to find someone else. I suppose I was hoping that on this occasion the printers would offer me a discount on 'my mistake' because of the amount of times I had forgiven them for theirs..

But this problem was your fault... why would they reprint for free? Over 50 orders and lots of complaints.. demand to speak to owner/director/someone above manager level.

Although you have granted certain circumstances that you are in by every right to receive discounts or refunds, there are always 2 sides to every story.

I would be interested in hearing the rebuttals to your arguments from the company in question.


Honestly, someone that provides constant errors (not directed at OP) I'd question the artwork 100.

Anyone that fucked up my artwork I'd never pay for at all.
 
#8
A4s can run off digital printers, which are not the same as litho. Most digital run up to A3 size, and after that it has to be printed litho.
There is a different colour profile determined for digital and litho - which accounts for the colour mishap. Should the printer know this - yes, absolutely!"
They amended the mistake eventually. The posters arrived and were printed the correct colours. If the colours were different because of the print method they wouldn't have corrected it.

This rings alarm bells, if you have bleed then you should have crop marks. If it was digital then they printed to a digital printed that printed to the edge of the sheet. How do you know they didn't trim off the bleed? Did it still have the crop marks on it? Or was it printed to the edge?"
It had a 3mm bleed. It wasn't trimmed off. I have been designing for 7 years.

What other print? Who printed it? They did? If they did then there's serious quality control issues to be answered If you're comparing your prints, or onscreen then you have to think again, what is on screen, or in your own printer will almost never meet your colour/quality expectations."
Not comparing to what is onscreen! - I am comparing the print in the box to the other print in the box - i.e print from the same company.

But this problem was your fault... why would they reprint for free? Over 50 orders and lots of complaints.. demand to speak to owner/director/someone above manager level. Although you have granted certain circumstances that you are in by every right to receive discounts or refunds, there are always 2 sides to every story.
I would be interested in hearing the rebuttals to your arguments from the company in question.
They won't reprint for free. The only reason why I feel they should is because I think they should've double checked that I wanted the same artwork front and back. That said - they are not obliged to do so, so really I am just wanting them to offer me a discount because I have been understanding of there mistakes on many occasions. I will keep you informed of what they say if you are interested?