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Opinion/suggestions for first timer please !! :)

Discussion in 'Graphic Design & Logo Design Critique:' started by Stoo1701, Apr 6, 2016.

  1. Stoo1701

    Stoo1701 Member

    image.jpeg Hi Guys, first post here.. About my first Logo..
    In the process of starting a UAV photography/survey business and decided on the name 4DPerceptions..this is the 'final' version of the logo I have made.. Took about 3 hours but I've never used Adobe products before !

    I'm generally happy with it but the 'erceptions' has me in two minds, the point of it is that the logo somehow infers another perception..

    Any suggestions to a tidier way to achieve this? The inferred P in the D is the same colour as 'erceptions so it reads as one word, but could I make better use of colour while maintaining the same kind of flow?

    Would be grateful for any thoughts !
    Thanks in advance
     
  2. Stationery Direct

    Stationery Direct Administrator Staff Member

    I love negative space logos but this really doesn't work unfortunately, back to the drawing board I think.
     
  3. Stoo1701

    Stoo1701 Member

    Can you explain why? Something a little more constructive would be useful.. :)
     
  4. Levi

    Levi Moderator Staff Member

    Honest opinion and it's going to come across as harsh.... hire someone, it will save you a lot of time (that is in no way a 3 hour piece of work) and it will come out more professional than what you've created.

    I'd put money on the idea that you have not even touched pen/pencil and paper while coming up with this 'idea' prior to your first 3 hours of using adobe software. Honestly as we've said many times before, having the software does not make you a designer.
    And before you moan about that viewpoint, lets put it another way, would you let someone who's never used a UAV fly one of yours without any proper training?

    It reads as LD and you don't really see the P without looking at it in more detail. Your choice of font for erception is bad and the design will not scale down well.

    In essence your design looks like it's been done by someone who has seen a cool style (negative space for example) and tried to recreate it without understanding the design principles that go into creating the style.

    Also out of curiosity what relevance does the 4th dimension (spacetime) have on UAV video's....
     
  5. Paul Murray

    Paul Murray Moderator Staff Member

    You're not going to be able to read "Perceptions" at smaller scales. Simplicity is key to legibility (both in the sense of literally being able to read something, and also communicating a clever idea or concept.

    For now I'd just stick the name "4D Perceptions" in a font you like the look of and forget about it. You're not a designer, so don't distract yourself from more important tasks by trying to brand the business yourself. Focus on getting clients and making your business profitable first, a logo is not even needed at this stage. If/when you get a decent turnover, hire a professional to tackle the branding for you. They'll take your ideas on board and use their years of knowledge and experience to probably nail a concept first time.
     
  6. Stoo1701

    Stoo1701 Member

    Ouch ! Hehe that's ok guys I was half expecting it.. Yes it did take about 3 hours from start to finish, make two letters, convert to points, move points around, map 'erceptions' to a curve... maybe with some YouTube/web pauses in between while I learned about changing letters to vectors and what-not. I've been in IT for a long time, just not design ! (Obviously by the sound of it haha)

    Some of you seem a little butthurt that I have the audacity to attempt such a thing.. Which I can understand to a point.. ! That said, there is something for me in being entirely responsible for this and every other aspect of my business, never hired in help..a Doubt I ever will.. My last business was started with £1400 and got to £350k turnover before I sold it on, the only outside help I got was with accounts and radio advertising ! Yes, I'm stubborn and self-sufficient !

    It's not that I won't listen to your advice guys, some of it is useful, like about font and scaling of the logo.. If the 4 reads like an L I'll adjust it so it doesn't..
    I understand what negative space is, and spent a couple of hours with a pencil before I switched the PC on, lots of assumption going on..

    I realise it's not a professional logo, but it's far better than a lot of the logo's I have seen on other similar sites, I came here to ask how I can take it from where it is to where it needs to be, it's a simple image.. Not rocket science !

    Levi, you own Adobe?? No I wouldn't out my UAV in someone else's hands, as it costs a lot of money if they break it.. How does that relate? I would certainly encourage them to practice and not simply condescend to them that they should only ever consider an experienced pilot.. :) fair final question.. The 4th dimension in this sense is time, as footage/stills can be taken from the same gps coordinates over days or weeks, and of course time-lapse is available.. So I think I can scrape it ;)

    So I think I'll make sure the 4 reads as a 4, change the font for the 'erceptions' letter and maybe run it along the bottom, flipping from white to black as it leaves the confines of the D. I'll keep tweaking it and try to make it approach something a little above outright amateur.. !

    I do appreciate your input on how to improve/alter the logo.. :)

    Have a good day y'all :D
     
  7. Wardy

    Wardy Active Member

    Further to what the other guys said, there are so many things wrong with it from a professional designer's point of view, it would take too long to explain.
    It's a bit like me bringing some photos to you that I think are ok, but you could find dozens of mistakes in them.

    Just find a nice 4 and D that go together and put PERCEPTIONS underneath. Remember, K.I.S.S! A simple and boring logo is better than a badly done one.
    Otherwise, hire a professional.
     
  8. @GCarlD

    @GCarlD Well-Known Member

    @Stoo1701

    Considering you are completely new and inexperienced to design, I didn't think it was that bad (not saying it's good). I have seen a hell of a lot worst first attempts at logo design. At least your concept was well thought through and I can see what you are trying to achieve. But sometimes you may just have to create something far more basic, not try and be too clever to design something when you have no training or experience in order to execute your desired concept in a professional manner. Basically, stick to creating something that is within your knowhow and skill-set. It may turn out to be generic and boring but that is better then a poorly designed logo for your business.
     
  9. Levi

    Levi Moderator Staff Member

    that just means you can run that business, doesn't mean you can design a logo for it :p Also to be fair some businesses are a lot easier to run day to day than others or need specialist skills etc.

    Some designers charge several thousand to do a logo because it isn't just a simple image, it's a brand identity that your business will be associated with, they also charge for the advice that you're asking for.

    So you wouldn't put your machinery, your livelihood, in the hands of someone without experience but this is exactly what you're doing with your logo, you've put your logo design in the hands of someone who isn't experienced. In essence you're trying to fly a uav without any experience or training and well it crashed.

    Most of us here have spent years honing our skills etc because we do this stuff for a living. Just because you can get the software doesn't mean you don't need additional skills/training to make the most of it.
     
  10. Stoo1701

    Stoo1701 Member

    Thank you all, that second volley (!) was far more constructive, and I'm not so embedded in my own A-hole that I'll insist on ignoring your input !

    Levi my last business was importing & installing hardwood flooring into hotels, castles etc.. Worked internationally. And was a hell of a burden to run to be fair.. Just saying, it wasn't a hot-dog stand lol but your point is certainly taken.

    Is there some halfway point guys? Could I use a better version (better shaping on the 4, I know the D is wayyy fat, and I could lost my Star Trek obsession and drop the sneaky insignia.. (Thought it represented flight..) so just a better done logo, with the words 4D Perceptions underneath in a nice font?

    When I read your posts just now, I was straightening out the writing, and in the middle of messing with the 4.. I got this far.. The red text would poss be b&w, changing to negative as it exits the D (across EP) so white inside, going to black outside the D.

    I know I know, give up.. And I will look at the simpler alternatives you mentioned, can always drop a simple vector drone on top of the writing or something.. Just want to see if I can rescue this I to something you wouldn't burn me for !!

    Thanks again, and to @CHLB for the most positive comment lol
     

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  11. Levi

    Levi Moderator Staff Member

    We've had this situation with other 'new designers' who just can't move past one idea when it's pretty obvious to another person with an outside perspective that moving onto another idea would be a much better use of their time. One of the first things you have to learn to do as a designer is know when to move on from an idea that isn't working and look at other ideas. There's nothing stopping you going back to it later but often you can come up with better ideas.

    My honest opinion is that you're not really going to come up with anything usable in the near future, while the idea could be developed into a useable one by most of us on here (after a long time) it wouldn't necessarily be the best design we could come up with.
     
  12. Stoo1701

    Stoo1701 Member

    Fair enough Levi.. I didn't come on here not to how to those with more knowledge... As I would expect to be heard on my own specialist subjects !!

    Thanks guys, K.I.S.S. It is
     
  13. Paul Murray

    Paul Murray Moderator Staff Member



    Not butthurt, it's just not easy to impart years of professional experience into a single forum post. I'm all for people attempting things on their own and am more than happy to provide feedback, but it gets tiresome explaining the same fundamental flaws over and over again. Some things are just better left to someone who knows what they're doing ;)

    As above, I see what you're trying to do with the idea but there's just too much going on for it to work. You should also be designing in a single colour. The above option wouldn't be legible if it was converted to a single colour because you wouldn't be able to read "erceptions" in its entirety.

    The issue with negative space logos is they only work in certain situations. Google some and you'll see they often have a 'lucky' combination of elements/words that enable the use of a negative space idea. Not all brand names easily allow for a clever idea, and it seems like the negative P in your idea is forced.

    If you're set on incorporating negative space then I'd personally be looking at doing something with the actual logomark and ignoring "Perceptions" completely, something like this;

    13_clever_examples_of_negative_space_logos_he-logo.jpg
    (designer unknown)
     
  14. Stoo1701

    Stoo1701 Member

    Thank you for taking the time (yet again it seems!) to impart some knowledge.. My original response was a little defensive, but I can understand your frustrations. I have had to work hard on many hardwood floors that people assumed they could DIY without understanding the nature and movement of various hardwoods! And have often been heard mumbling/shouting "why can't they just leave it to a f$€#king professional !!" So I totally get where your coming from.

    I was thinking the same about not forcing the 'erceptions' part, and just having the word under a simpler logo, would love to use neg space as it speaks of the perception in the company name, and I love the idea of a logo 'proving itself' if that makes sense.

    I have drawn up a very simple 4D, with them joined in the middle, 4 in black, centre of the D in black.. If you googled 4D logo, something very similar is about the 6th hit.. I'll try to keep it simple to avoid design errors, or the alchemy you lot live on ;) I'll post the result here for some "it's better, but it's still s£&t" comments lol.

    Cheers again !
     
    @GCarlD likes this.
  15. Jspam1

    Jspam1 Member

  16. scotty

    scotty Well-Known Member

    I'm a bit late to the game here but I'd agree with a lot of what's been said.
    After 3 hours in Illustrator, I'd have been lucky to have drawn a circle. ;)
    You'll have to excuse the bluntness of the replies but that's a design industry thing.
    At college I was tied to a desk and had my nipples burned with cigarettes for some slightly dodgy kerning.
    A seasoned pro would expect at least a light toasting (if they were lucky) after asking for a crit.

    As for the logo. I see where you're going.
    First impressions is that it reads as: 4 Derceptions to me.
    I'd split the Perceptions away from the 4D.
    Have the 4D as a stand alone or... all on one line.
    If you're going to used "erceptions" in there then I'd alter the font to something more classic, simple as that one is a bit too fancy.
    If you're going to move some text from it's baseline then it needs to be legible.

    Paul's example was very good and it shows very clever use of negative space but things like that often belie the amount of work, thought and skill that has gone into making them work.
    Simple isn't often easy.

    Maybe what you're trying to achieve is going from zero to hero in the design department.
    If you're intent on doing it yourself (respect) I'd go the KISS route to start.
    You can always change it later.

    Have a look on some of the logo sites like LogoPond and maybe make a Pinterest board of the ones that float your boat and use them for inspiration.

    Funnily enough, I know someone that's started a UAV business and they've done a DIY logo and it makes my eyes hurt as they've tried to be too clever and it kind of de-values their image to me. They take some lovely footage and then this pig of a logo whooshes onto the screen.
    I then groan. :(

    On another drone note. I've got to learn how to film and operate a drone as my colleague managed to do a "very" close up of a tree with the Phantom on it's first outing.
    Wish me luck! :D
     
  17. Paul Murray

    Paul Murray Moderator Staff Member



    I'm disappointed you didn't opt for something like "Not to drone on, but…" ;)
     
    scotty likes this.
  18. Levi

    Levi Moderator Staff Member

    I call for Scotty getting a warning for bad jokes... he's getting worse...
     
  19. scotty

    scotty Well-Known Member

    I was trying to abide by forum guide lines/rules.
     
  20. hankscorpio

    hankscorpio Moderator Staff Member

    I agree with everyone, and I was thinking along the lines of Paul's suggestion in the HE logo before I got that post.

    Scotty - you and I are kindred spirits, our jokes are hilarious!
     
    scotty likes this.

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