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My first online startup logo need your expert feedback!

Hi Everyone,

I'm in the midst of an online startup and it's been a crazy experience so far. But a lot of fun. I suggest anyone reading this that's ever dreamed of doing it to just DO IT!

Anyways, back to the purpose of this thread. I started a competition on [a devaluing crowdsourcing site] and got some great results. I've narrowed it down to 1 artist, and two very similar designs. These options are very close to a finished product but not quite there. I don't know what they're missing but I feel it needs somethings. Something that I know only you designers and artist can pinpoint to put this brand over the top. Maybe a change in font or the logo, I'm not sure. But I'm hoping with the wealth of talent here we can make this something great. Please Please PLEASE check out the link and share your wisdom. I can't even begin to tell you the appreciation.

link deleted, we do not support the use of crowdsourcing sites - Levi, moderator

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Staff member
Why would we help you fix a crowdsourced logo, you get what you pay for on those sorts of sites.
If you had paid for a designer to work with you rather than starting a 'competition' to get your brand identity you wouldn't be having these issues because the designer would be working with you to resolve the design to it's complete conclusion.
I'm new to this so please forgive my ignorance. I was refered to [removed] and in all honesty it has been a pleasant experience. The designer is still working with me on this logo and will make any change I ask. The problem is I don't know what to ask for to enhance the design. And neither does he. I was just hoping to reach out to this community for some help. We're also looking for web site designers so there could also be a monetary reason.

I'd like to thank anyone whose read this thread, support or not.

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Stationery Direct

Staff member
If you had paid a fair price and used a professional then you would not need to ask for the design to be enhanced. Happy to advise but I charge for my time.


Staff member
Just to try and explain a bit.

Most designers find crowd sourcing quite exploitative and damaging to our industry which is why some people may take offence to you asking for help on here.
I guess you'd need to be a designer to understand that and you're not to know.

You see, designers are just like everyone else. We're just trying to make a living same as you.
Not sure what kind of thing you do but would you participate in such a thing?
The not so funny thing is that for some reason a lot of people expect designers to work for them for little or nothing on the premise that they may get more work or that it may be good for their portfolio.

Regarding the crowd sourcing model. If you think that maybe 99 Designers may have designed logo concepts for you and each spent just 3 hours on it, then we're talking about 300 man hours that have gone into your logo and only one person gets paid. I don't know your figure but it's usually WAY under the usual rate.
BTW. A decent logo may actually take many days or even weeks to finalise.
Also, a lot of the 'designers' that do participate in these 'competitions' are not even giving you an original concept. They maybe just stealing another logo and putting your name on it.

The fact that you've used crowd sourcing for your logo which you're not quite happy with and then come to a forum of professional designers for free help/advice on how to resolve it is a little bit of a faux pas really.
Red flag to a bull kind of situation.


Staff member
Every day, there are more and more online requests seeking artists for everything from auto graphics to comic books to corporate logo designs. More people are finding themselves in need of some form of illustrative service.

But what they're NOT doing, unfortunately, is realizing how rare someone with these particular talents can be.

To anyone seeking artists/designers, let me ask you; how many people do you know, personally, with the talent and skill to perform the services you need? A dozen? Five? One? none?

More than likely, you don't know any. Otherwise, you wouldn't be posting online to find them.

And this is not really a surprise.

All over the world, there are almost twice as many neurosurgeons as there are professional illustrators/designers. There are eleven times as many certified mechanics. There are SEVENTY times as many people in the IT field.

Given that they are less rare, and therefore less in demand, would it make sense to ask your mechanic to work on your car for free, or run a competition asking mechanics to service your car and you'll pay the one who does the best job? Would you look him in the eye, with a straight face, and tell him that his compensation would be the ability to have his work shown to others as you drive down the street?

Would you offer a neurosurgeon the opportunity to add your name to his resume as payment for removing that pesky tumor? (Maybe you could offer him a few bucks for materials. What a deal!)

Would you be able to seriously even CONSIDER offering your web hosting service the chance to have people see their work, by viewing your website, as their payment for hosting you?

If you answered yes to ANY of the above, you're obviously insane. If you answered no, then kudos to you for living in the real world.

But then tell me why would you think it is okay to live out the same, delusional, ridiculous fantasy when seeking someone whose abilities are even less in supply than these folks?

Graphic artists, illustrators, painters, designers, etc., are skilled tradesmen. As such, to consider them as, or deal with them as, anything less than professionals fully deserving of your respect is both insulting and a bad reflection on you as a sane, reasonable person. In short, it makes you look like a twit.

A few things you need to know;

1. It is not a great opportunity for a designer to have his work seen on your car/zine/website/bedroom wall, etc. It IS a great opportunity for YOU to have their work there.

2. It is not clever to seek a student or beginner in an attempt to get work for free. Its ignorant and insulting. They may be students, but that does not mean they don't deserve to be paid for their hard work. You were a student once, too. Would you have taken that job at McDonalds with no pay, because you were learning essential job skills for the real world? Yes, your proposition it JUST as stupid.

3. The chance to have their name on something that is going to be seen by other people, whether its one or one million, is NOT a valid enticement. Neither is the right to add that work to their portfolio. They get to do those things ANYWAY, after being paid as they should. Its not compensation. Its their right, and its a given.

4. Stop thinking that you're giving them some great chance to work. Once they skip over your silly ad, as they should, the next ad is usually for someone who lives in the real world, and as such, will pay them. There are far more jobs needing these skills than there are people who possess these skills.

5. Students DO need experience. But they do NOT need to get it by giving their work away. In fact, this does not even offer them the experience they need. Anyone who will not/can not pay them is obviously the type of person or business they should be ashamed to have on their resume anyway. Do you think professional contractors list the experience they got while nailing down a loose step at their grandmothers house when they were seventeen?

If you your company or gig was worth listing as desired experience, it would be able to pay for the services it received. The only experience they will get doing free work for you is a lesson learned in what kinds of scrubs they should not lower themselves to deal with.

6. (This one is FOR the artists out there, please pay attention.) Some will ask you to submit work for consideration. They may even be posing as some sort of competition. These are almost always scams. They will take the work submitted by many artists seeking to win the contest, or be chosen for the gig, and find what they like most. They will then usually have someone who works for them, or someone who works incredibly cheap because they have no originality or talent of their own, reproduce that same work, or even just make slight modifications to it, and claim it as their own. You will NOT be paid, you will NOT win the contest. The only people who win, here, are the underhanded folks who run these competitions. This is speculative, or spec, work. Its risky at best, and a complete scam at worst. I urge you to avoid it, completely. For more information on this subject, please visit www.no-spec.com.

To all the artists/designers/illustrators looking for work, do everyone a favor, ESPECIALLY yourselves, and avoid people who do not intend to pay you. Whether they are spec gigs, or just some guy who wants a free mural on his living room walls. They need you. You do NOT need them.

And for those who are looking for someone to do work for free please wake up and join the real world. The only thing you're accomplishing is to insult those with the skills you need.

Get a clue.