Member Offer
  1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Is Design respected?

Discussion in 'Logo Design & Brand Identity Forum:' started by Tony, Jul 4, 2010.

  1. Tony

    Tony Member

    It seems that many people outside of design have little knowledge of Design and as such do respect it as a profession/trade.

    I always hear 'oh I'll just go to a student and chuck 'em £30 for my logo' or 'my budget is only 50p' or 'so and so has said they will do it for 50% of your price, will you compete?' :mad:

    I just wonder where else in their lives they do this?

    If they need a plumber or mechanic do they go to a college and try to pay a student a tuppence to fix their pipes or car?!

    Or when given a price do they say that another garage will do it for half?!

    People do not seem to understand or care that if you pay a cheap price for design it will affect the final product. I cannot think of many or even any other products/services that suffer from this? Prostitutes? :D


    I'm aware this may have come up before and that this may possibly even be a repost, if so apologies. It's frustrating dealing with some clients, maybe having nothing to do with them and just designing was better lol.
  2. mrp2049

    mrp2049 Senior Member

    Part of the problem is there are always people who will go with the lowest common denominator. It doesn't matter whether we are talking about design, cars, shops, plumbers or prostitutes!

    The fact that design is a relatively young discipline, (I realise its not, but compared to something like woodwork/farming, it is) the average Joe doesn't necessarily have any idea why you should pay good money for good design. I think the idea, "I can use a computer, I've got that word program, it will be fine" is still to common, I have a tool kit, but I am not going to try and fix my boiler.
  3. I dont know, but i got a quote request today from a "bespoke accountants" for a logo and website with a estimated budget of £100.

    I had to control myself from taking it lol /sarcasm
  4. Renniks

    Renniks Senior Member

    We just need a few "guidelines" to supply to these companies that they can choose to read as to:

    Why we charge what we do.

    Why we don't think approaching "some kid with photoshop" (remember, the person being a student or a kid is not at all important, it is the quality of their work that matters) isn't the best idea

    What the process actually entails

    And just generally educating them... Ignorance shouldn't be, but is often an excuse, if they don't realise the difference in what good designers create, they will happily pay less, but alot of people who know what they need will go to the real designers
  5. mrDerek

    mrDerek Member

    it's because the majority of people do not fully appreciate a good design.

    Lets face it, good designs are only appreciated by other designers and those who are artistically minded.

    To your accountants or the flower shop around the corner, all they want is a pretty image they can put on letter heads etc. They don't care if you used some fancy-ass font, they wouldn't know the difference between that and ariel.

    Designers would then argue that it makes a difference, but does it really? to the old lady who pop'ed into the flower shop or to your general business person?

    I don't mean to offend anyone here, but design outside of the art and design industry, isn't that big a deal. All these rules and standards that designers adhere to... they're only there for competition among designers. Your average joe wouldn't know the difference.
  6. Renniks

    Renniks Senior Member

    What a load of tosh... The reason for good design is all to do with cognitive psychology and how we read, interpret, understand, and navigate through a design. It should be perfect and invisible. It should accentuate the content and the point of the work.
    Appreciating it is not necessary, but the 'rules' and standards are there due to their effectiveness, the reason we don't centre text is due to its legibility, but many 'non-designers' will centre text because it 'looks better'... it looking better is not design, it is art, it is not functional, it is not the best way of doing things. hence why designers are worth their weight in gold when they complete great pieces of design
  7. mrDerek

    mrDerek Member

    in terms of design, anything beyond common sense will not be appreciated by the masses.

    your average joe will not stop while browsing a website to think
    "oh, how the text here isn't centered makes it soooo much more legible"

    They will read the text and move on.
  8. Mark Alexander

    Mark Alexander Senior Member

    But that's not the goal. The goal is to benefit the average Joe without him necessarily being aware of it by designing the website in a way which makes it easy for him to interact with.
  9. mrDerek

    mrDerek Member

    Exactly. Your average joe isn't aware of good design.

    Don't get me wrong, I love a good design, but to the rest of the world, they don't give two ****s.
  10. Renniks

    Renniks Senior Member

    It is not about noticing it, it is about making it easier without them knowing.

    It is not about making things pretty. It is about completing a task (displaying content for example) in the best possible method. It being the best is not to do with people caring about it, it is about it being the best.

    So while people may not 'care' they will benefit from good design, and companies getting designs should know that the best designs will benefit them the most.

    Call to actions should be clear and succinct for example. This wouldn't be the case with bad design


    Oh and them just reading the centred text and moving on may be the case but it is more difficult for the brain to accomplish, which should be avoided. Hence good design and bad design exist, and all people hiring designers should aim for the best design.
  11. mrp2049

    mrp2049 Senior Member

    I'm with the Marks on this one, joe public doesn't know why, but that doesn't escape the fact that they don't have to understand or appreciate it.

    When you compare it to design of more or less anything that is the case. Does joe public have to understand what makes an aston martin dbs better than a gold punto? No, but there is a massive difference and its one you have to pay for!
  12. Renniks

    Renniks Senior Member

    Aston martins are better than gold puntos ? :eek:
  13. Tony

    Tony Member

    I can kind of see both points and don't think they necessarily conflict.

    The majority of non-creatives may not appreciate good design but good design makes non-creatives appreciate design without them realising it.

    I feel like the Riddler now, at least I know what I mean.

    The big companies certainly know the importance of design, I know of a design house given, yes given, $50k just to pitch. It's a shame that it doest filter down more but I guess not everyone knows all the factors of business.
  14. mrp2049

    mrp2049 Senior Member

    Google 'university of glamorgan atrium' their design package cost 60k! And its awful and its a pretty big insult to every student in their walls! That's a real odd balance between paying for rubbish design whilst not giving their talented students an opportunity!
  15. Mark Alexander

    Mark Alexander Senior Member

    Government websites are way way more ridiculous.

    For example this cost £360,000 to design and develop. Never mind the running costs.

    Must be good work if you can get it.
  16. Just Sadiqa

    Just Sadiqa Member

    Hi there,

    It is all a matter of perception, everyone has an opinion. Good design isn't obvious, by this I mean that it is so subtle and well done that the client believes (to a certain extent) that they have come up with the idea and/or in some respects one isn't aware that it (product/service) has been 'designed'.

    The lay-person doesn't realise that everything around us has been 'designed' by someone or some people. Design is taken for advantage as it isn't something that comes up in everyday conversation (unless of course one's in the design field!). It's upto us as designers to make ourselves and our work known and valued.

    That's just what I think!

  17. i would have dont that for half the cost :p
  18. ColeUK

    ColeUK Junior Member

    Wow, that is excessive! but not surprised, being government related and the spending 'over' budget no doubt. I wonder if they approached someone with a budget of £30 and is now being taking for a ride!? (That will teach them!) lol

    Surely their must be a lot of other work going into it, to get to £360K like the information collated and databasing etc...
  19. ColeUK

    ColeUK Junior Member

    Personally, I believe in taking an interest in educating the client, potential client, or general 'person up the street' the benefits of design, and indeed 'good design' one that, in such a way isn't about being all fluffy and serving the purpose, but also about how a well thought out design can reach beyond that and can be a driving force in the business, become set aside from competition and instill a sense of soul to how they operate and are perceived.

    It's also psychological on many levels, how many clients have you had that through the process till the delivery and further, its completely taken the business on another level, almost given them a 'fix' breathing new life into the company, that their enthusiasm and motivation has soared to another level, of which they didn't have before they approached you? .....The power of design.

    Call it Branding if you will. We are talking logos and designs being not only used to identity one person, or business from the next but create 'experience' and well constructed use of logo, colour, attitude and overall flow can greatly enhance the profitability/impact they have.

    Not many people care, not even in big business, they have departments for that, people who have taken degrees in consulting this and brain storming that, even people who pick out the furniture! and leave it all to them, not knowing the full effect it has.

    So what happens to the smaller scale designers, freelancers? Well they have to step up and do all those jobs themselves, or get on with putting up with the ridiculous perceptions, unrealistic demands of those not in the know!

    So now Mr 'Bespoke Accountants' would you like to reconsider that £100 budget now please? lol
  20. Russell

    Russell Member

    I've been trying to explain what I do to my mother for years. Never quite managed it, 'did you take the pictures?' No, photographer did, 'Did you do that drawing?' no we got an illustrator for that one, 'Did you write the text?' No, copywriter did, 'do you print these yourself?' No, a printer does. 'Well it looks pretty.' Thanks mum.

Share This Page