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Google continues to lose % of searchs for another month

Discussion in 'Website Design Forum:' started by Jazajay, Jul 9, 2010.

  1. Jazajay

    Jazajay Active Member

    Hay peeps,
    As many will know I like to keep on top of the latest changes in the search results. Google for the last few months has been losing search share. Bing and Ask have been increasing, might have something to do with all the huge Ad budgets those 2 have been pushing but last month was quite interesting as:

    Bing jumped a massive 0.62%,
    Google lost 0.48%,
    Yahoo! lost 0.06%,
    Ask went up 0.05%.

    Cite: Bing share of searches increases 7 percent for June 2010

    Now you may say thats not a huge number, but you have to bare in mind how many billion, upon billion, upon billion of searches are done every month and then hopefully you will see how many searches Google is losing a month.

    Personally I love Bing search haven't used Google for personal use in a very long time and when I do I prefer Bing's tbh.

    But with what looks like Bings results finally starting to populate Yahoo!'s results as well, not confirmed yet but there is some weird goings on with some of the Yahoo! SERPs being reported, it wont be long until Bing jumps to at least 24.22% of the search share and if Google's trend of losing searches each month continues then well we could have a situation very similar to the browsers at the moment.

    So any thoughts?
     
  2. Levi

    Levi Moderator Staff Member

    to be honest thats not suprising considering the underhanded approach ms took last month. They sent out an update for windows or windows live which made ie toolbars change to bing but they also 'accidentally' went and changed firefox to include the bing search toolbar and made bing search in the address and search boxes. It wasn't an easy removal either on firefox as it kept coming back even after resetting the about:config bits.
     
  3. Mark Alexander

    Mark Alexander Senior Member

    Huh? That's the point of percentages, so you can see how significant something is when compared to the whole. You've gone backwards and said well look in real numbers it's a massive number of search queries, but you've forgot that in these same 'real numbers' Google still has a massively massively massively massive number of search queries, which does in fact make this numerically large loss insignificant.
     
  4. Jazajay

    Jazajay Active Member

    @Levi
    True but you can't also rule out their massive, and I mean massive ad campaign they are still doing at the mo as well. Plus people could all ways just go to Google.com if they really wanted to use Google. :)

    @Mark
    Oooo a challenger loving it, that doesn't happen very often. :D
    But.....Sigh,
    Kinda missed the point. Look at the title it says continues, Google in the US had a market share of over 75% this time last year. A drop in 3% traffic in a year is absolutely huge. That's 3% of a multi, multi, multi billion a year company disappearing in less than a year how can you say that is not huge especially as the trend is not slowing down at all and especially as Chrome as taken off to 5% market share.
    If anything you would expect it to increase not decrease as that was the sole point of Chrome.
    It's also the sore reason of their O/S as well.

    Also thats almost half a percentage loss in 1 month. Lets just say they had 10 billion searches that month, yes I know I'm playing their figures down. That alone is 48million, thats million searches people went else where for in 1 month.

    PLEASE note that numbers probably quadrupled as I played the searches down. Thats huge. Now bare in mind they have already lost 2.5% of search queries in less than a year and if this trend continues, which it doesn't look like it is stopping, or even slowing down, then well......
     
  5. Renniks

    Renniks Senior Member

    How have the number of users who use search engines (or web directories) increased this year though?
     
  6. Jazajay

    Jazajay Active Member

    Good question and I see where your going with offsetting it but I can't see them increasing so much that it would make that much of a difference % wise especially as some would go to Google as well.
     
  7. Renniks

    Renniks Senior Member

    Fair enough :) No idea myself.

    I don't think they have to worry. This is the first time Googles really been challenged. Of course alot of people jump ship to a new innovative thing. Lets hope (for the webs sake) that the number doesn't drop too drastically. Wouldn't want google attempting stuff they shouldn't to lure in people.
     
  8. Levi

    Levi Moderator Staff Member

    Well if you think about it a different way then and considering all their efforts then it's not really paying dividends to that much of an extent.

    Bing is now default search engine on ALL MS products, most users will not change this, hell I didn't even bother in ie8 (but I never use it :)), so you could look at this as ms gaining share due to less techy people or purely making it too difficult to get rid of.
    Trust me the firefox thing was a pita and was not something that someone like my parents could have fixed (theres plenty of that type out there).
    Would love to see the stats for people who are stuck with bing in firefox when they don't actually want it due to ms's dodgy upgrade tactic.

    You've also got bing being used on iPhone and of course all ms based mobile phones.

    Now bing search results are generally pretty good but there interface just isn't as clean as google's - who in their right minds thought a background image would be useful!

    Also I just go to google.co.uk as my home page, I've got analytics, gmail (and I have hotmail x2 accounts), google's paypal and toyed with blogger (although likely going to try wordpress or pixie) plus I'm sure theres other stuff I've used that I can't think of.

    I can't see google down too much further to be honest, google is even part of most people general language - I'll just google that sounds so much better than I'll just bing that :up:
     
  9. Jazajay

    Jazajay Active Member

    @Levi
    Ooo liking this bit of a debate going on, like it.
    Well of coarse I disagree, I'll just disagree for the sake of it 9 times out of 10 but not this time. :D

    But I totally disagree 0.5% in 1 month is a big jump and as you say Google is now a verb and getting people off a brand that has become a verb is not an easy thing, but so is Hoover doesn't mean you use a vacuum cleaner bought from Hoover to do the cleaning these days. Just because a brand was/is good to the point where it is a house hold name for that industry doesn't mean it will remain there even if the verb sticks. 5-10 years time the verb to Google might just mean to search just like:

    "Where's your hoover I want to hoover this sand up?" is today. :)

    Hoovers a brand if you (Not meaning just you Levi, lol) don't know.

    That said Bing brings in a lot better results for a lot of terms these days could it simply not be due to that?
    Check out these 2 results and tell me which one is better by far and they have been offering this for about a year if not more.
    Bings:
    spooks - Bing

    Google:
    spooks - Google Search

    Spooks is a TV series about MI5 if you don't know. Scroll down to see the far better results in Bing. This is replicated on loads of queries as well.

    Now TBH I don't use the home page of Bing so can't say the image annoys me so much tbh, but thank the lord I can now use Bing from the search bar in Safari that is a massive improvement to the point where I refused to use Safari for general browsing before, just as you refuse to use Bing over an image, as I could use another browser that let me change the provider.

    But TBH you could quite easily argue that Microsoft have done that due to Google putting their own O/S out, again purely to get users of IE and thus Bing as the default search engine and the same with the Chrome browser. TBH can't say it annoys me and if it did I can always type into the address bar Google.co.uk and then go from there. :)

    You also forget that when the search engine wars first took off (Lycos, Ask Geeves, Yahoo!, Grub, Dogpile, MetaCrawler to name but a few off the top of my head) back in the day Google used to have an ad budget as well. Bings only come on the scene in the last few years so rather than having to fight amongst the pack it's had to fight amongst 2 entrenched competitors so taking 3% in a year is pretty big tbh. Also you have to bare in mind how many billions of dollars they make a year and a $100 million ad budget really is only a drop in the ocean. So $100 million for 3% in my eyes justifies it and makes it a good return on investment. As the more traffic they can generate the more ads they will sell. At the end of the day both of these are mutli billion businesses.

    But I think the point that Google, bare in mind this month that doesn't account for their previous 2.5% loss in traffic before this one, is no longer the default engine makes much of a decent argument, no offense. :)

    If people where that bothered about using Google and that loyal to the brand, at the end of the day that's what it's down to brand loyalty, which you get over that brand offering quality products, good value and all the rest, why not just type in Google.com rather than making do with an inferior brand?

    Shows that tbh if that is the reason this month then they only use Google, not because it is a far better product, but because they have it installed in their browser and just simply can't be arsed to change it.

    Also you have to bare in mind that Microsoft has also been made to have installed on Windows a browser selector as the regulators said that IE had an unfair advantage over the rest. Same thing just against them, not for them.

    Now I know the Italian regulators where looking into Google due to unfair competitiveness and they will surely look at this as well, not just the Italians either, if they deem it to be lawful then personally I don't see the problem. Its just us being caught up in the current war between the 2 Corporations TBH. :)

    But if we want to put theories out there could it not be said that it might also be the case due to Google going back into China after it boycotted due to spying?

    Therefore a backlash as people protest against it, however as these appears to be a continuing trend I doubt it, but it's another theory none the less. :)

    As all ways I respect yours and everyone else's, and future contributions if any, points of view. :)
    Jazzy
     
  10. Levi

    Levi Moderator Staff Member

    Well I thought the browser ballet thing was stupid but thats a different topic.

    As to your search, try it again the way a googlefied user would search ie spooks tv show and then look how the results change. You just have to know how to use the search engine, most google users do already know how to do that :)

    As to google's os's, well it isn't really a new os, both are based off linux (which is also based off unix like os-x) with a new front end and are customised for their intended use. Google chrome os will gain traction traction as it will be aiming for a different market (web based services and web browsing etc rather than full os) to windows desktop os, although microsoft are stupid and instead of designing a nice simple touch interface as an optional desktop they decided to use windows compact as it's competitor in the tablet market, which is again different to windows phone 7 meaning more code to learn. So basically chromeos/android will have an open playing field in the tablet wars
     
  11. Jazajay

    Jazajay Active Member

    Err....shows pretty much the same tbh, but it is good to see you have to compensate for the downsides of your product. My product does it for me, lol, I don't need to guess. :lol:.

    Bing splits it up into headers and shows what twice as many results than it would normally all split up by headers with a quick jump menu in the top left sometimes.

    Google simply provides me with a unordered list of 10 results.

    Bing on the other hand:
    1) Shows me videos which Google doesn't.
    2) Shows me 5 general results followed by a link to more results.
    3) Then has a clickable header and shows 3 results for the tv show of spooks with another link to just show more from that specialized topic.
    4) Then has another clickable header this time to dvd's on spooks then as above again.
    5) Then has another clickable header on the tv shows theme tune, then again as above,
    6) Then has another clickable header this time on spooks tv show wallpaper then as above
    7) Then another clickable header on the tv shows characters, results, more results specialized to this as above.

    So in total 20 results on the home page all split up into sub categories.

    But kind of proves my point if you have to generate a more specialized query to get the results your looking for then Bing is offering the better product as with Bing not only does it give you Googles results, but much more for a much simpler search. Spooks was just an example I can find many more.

    That's why I reckon it's more down to the fact that Bing as you even imply, offers better results, I mean that as you said you have to do a much more specialized search to get the same results from Google, and in the end it turns out you still don't get near what Bing offers you on the much simpler search.

    But tie that in with advertising and well people start to see which is the better product. I mean Google has lost 3% share in a year for a reason, and Bing has been offering this for over a year now. :)

    Okay, okay it's not a new O/S, just like Chrome wasn't a new browser, but the point is it was released to take traffic off Bing something of which it, and Chrome, is not doing, and Google is in fact still losing traffic regardless.

    Plus them all together and well you see why.
    Good product, followed by good advertising = A change in peoples search habits and that is what is happening. :)

    Back on tomorrow to continue this debate, lol, as I'm taking my car mad 3 year old to see Banger racing. :)
     
  12. Levi

    Levi Moderator Staff Member

    google is introducing chromeos to push forward web apps iirc. Android was released to gain a foothold in the mobile market search and ads bit (like apple has now jumped into)

    As to video's - well I click one button to see a full screen full :p
    I also get thumbnails thanks to a firefox plugin (uses alexa thumbs)

    Now lets try a search for something not so uk orientated :p

    do a search for denki groove niji or pandora hearts
    now do a search for "birds of prey" (the tv series)
     
  13. Jazajay

    Jazajay Active Member

    Okay have you got anything harder for me to dispute. :lol:

    Yes as I said to beat Bing as the default search engine if Windows mobile took hold it would be harder for Google to push their search engine on an entrenched competitor, it's all about search, as that is their main income, and who can get the most devices primed for their default engine. But yeah good point I forgot that they even have android devices and regardless have still lost, not gained, 3% market share in a year.

    Yeah but Google doesn't even offer Videos as an option to view. :D

    Now the first 2 examples you gave I tbh haven't heard of but birds of prey the problem with that term is that it is way too generic, just from the top of my head possible matches are:

    Birds ~ Huge amount of predator birds they could do a whole featured selection on that alone.
    The TV series - again another huge selection.
    Unknown variables - that could have huge sections done on them.

    However have you searched for it? :lol:
    birds of prey - Bing
    1) Starts off with videos of birds of prey
    2) General results,
    3) Birds of prey the tv series links to DVDS comes in at 3, :lol:
    4) Birds of prey, tv show I think, theme tune comes in at 4, :lol:
    5) Wallpaper to birds of prey,
    6) Links to the cast of birds of prey the TV series
    7) Birds of prey episodes from the TV show,
    8) Images of birds of prey.

    Where as Google offers just 10 results and links to images and videos. Of which none contain the TV series.

    Where you viewing the wrong provider, as Bing offers it and again Google doesn't. :lol:

    Okay lets try a none UK based one
    facebook - Bing

    Again 20 results split up by headers:
    1) General results,
    2) Facebook applications,
    3) Facebook History,
    4) Facebook services,
    5) Facebook developer platform.

    Dell 21 results split up by headers:
    dell - Bing
    1) General results,
    2) Dell drivers,
    3) Dell support,
    4) Dell downloads
    5) Dell reviews,
    6) Dell parts.

    PLEASE NOTE:
    Each point in all 3 examples are the headers to sections in Bings first page results, that contain 3-5 links on that topic below it.


    But what you are also missing is Google doesn't even offer this. Bing has been offering this for over a year.

    Google is losing search traffic over a continued period currently down 3%, thats the main point your missing it's not all at once it's continued.
    Now take into account the better results from Bing shown above are prime examples, advertising and you get why.

    The fact that Google has moved into mobile search with Andriod and released Chrome and it has made no effect shows that TBH people are taking in the advertising from Ask and Bing, as Ask is moving up in search volume as well, at a slower rate granted, but they too have an ad campaign on the go, shows that people are trying the alternate products and sticking with them rather than reverting back to Google just because it is a verb.

    If this wasn't the case you would expect either no change or a dip for a month, not a continued fall month after month which is what is happening. :)

    But just because it's a verb is not an argument, (from one of the other posts) it's bit like Hoover and Dyson in the vacuum cleaner industry. Hoover was the defacto brand at one time, and their vacuum cleaners are still good, lots of suction, but if you asked most people which Hoover is the best one, most would say a Dyson, which isn't even part of the Hoover brand.

    Dyson just offers better products, the roll one (Don't know it's brand name) but more importantly it's cyclone technology which makes it a more powerful vacuum cleaner. My point is though people still call it a Hoover when it is not even made by Hoover so just because Google is verb doesn't mean it will stay at the top of the search providers. As the stats are starting to show. :)
     
  14. Kevin

    Kevin Senior Member

    When I search Bing for Facebook it asks me if I meant face book.
    And it lists the facebook homepage in 10 different languages.

    Whereas Google does know the term Facebook, and it shows me the English homepage, login, Dutch homepage, Facebook on Wikipedia and Twitter and then some news articles
     
  15. Levi

    Levi Moderator Staff Member

    Jaz, you must be on a different google search (they do have more than one algorythm etc after all) as my list was different to yours :)

    As to it being seperated, why does it need it, you only have to click on image, video, web up top/on side and you have a whole page full. Personally I see that as more efficient than wasting space with images/video's on a page when you may not want them.

    Actually I must be weird then as I'd never say a dyson is the best vacuum, I'd be saying Henry is :)

    Yeah Google is losing percentage but it's more than likely due to ms doing everything they can to make bing the default in windows, as I've said they did the forced install on firefox and they also make it harder to change from bing in ie, they even make it default. I would put money on windows 8 having an integrated bing search in the toolbar as another way to 'gain' marketshare. I very much doubt it is people choosing bing over google, it's more about microsoft making people use it as they have no idea how to get rid of it, people like our parent's etc who aren't as tech savvy as us.
     
  16. tim

    tim Senior Member

    i wonder what the mobile browser % increase is for bing, and on which devices.

    after iOS4 bought in bing i know a lot of people started ditching google. i did.
     
  17. tim

    tim Senior Member

    if your in safari, just type in facebook in the URL bar and it'll take you there. no search ;)
     
  18. ColeUK

    ColeUK Junior Member

    Yeh I agree, I would say now that Bing 'is live and binging', the fact it hijacks and becomes a default search engine on many machines is probably a contributing factor.

    Personally I am loyal to Google and have a preference for their mail program too.
     
  19. Jazajay

    Jazajay Active Member

    @All
    Sorry for my departure from the debate for a few days, been a bit busy and only have half hour now before I have to get ready for a meeting but thought i would share US search share as it to is interesting before i start answering the easy questions/remarks. :D

    Google:
    From last month (July 10): Down -0.1%
    From this time last year (July 09): Down -1.1%

    Bing:
    From last month (July 10): Up +0.4%
    From this time last year (July 09): Up +4.5%

    Total number of searches in July:
    9.1 billion

    Cite:Top U.S. Search Sites for June 2010 | Nielsen Wire

    @Levi
    Well it's all part of the same main algo but each result is bought in via 1000's or servers hence the discrepancy of the servers not being in sync. :)

    I can't remember the full stats off the top of my head but the % of users who go on to 2 or more pages on any given websites is only 54%, 3 pages plus I think then drops down to 27%, I can find them out if need be. So by putting them on the home page all in one means that 46% more users get the chance to see them. So it may seem less efficient but in usability terms statistically it is anything but and allows more users to see more relevant searches for less complicated search terms making it the better way of doing it.

    I will agree that as last month is higher than the average drop in Google's search share that that may be a contributing factor, FOR THAT MONTH, no where near the only factor mind, advertising, better usability, same quality if not better search results etc... etc.... But please explain the 2.5% drop from the year before then?

    Especially as google is doing the same with Andriod and Chrome.
    I'll put money on Andriod doing the same, can't see how you can slate one if the other does it TBH. :)

    Really?
    Well the statistics, the facts, say different.
    If that was the case explain the constant drop of 2.5% before this month?
    As I've said and Tim says:
    If it was because they didn't want to use Bing why not just type Google into the address bar?
    But again explain the 2.5% fall from the year before. 2.5% is a huge amount of searches and if people where as you suggest just trying it out you would only expect a change of 0.4% tops as people would try it not like it and revert back to Google, 2.5% a constant drop says that people are actually trying it and sticking it as the number is still rising, not just here but in the US, and before you say that 1.1% loss in a year is all down to MS pushing their product that will only explain last month not the 11 before it.

    Really?
    Wo anyhoo, so your saying people don't know to put Google.com into the address bar, I know my dad does and I had to create him a email account not the techy POP kind either.

    I've also seen people search for Google on Bing when Bing is the default then go from there, that again would not explain the drop if they were doing that either, well no where near account for that kind of a percentage. Again you would only expect a 0.4% increases due to the share volume of search involved.

    Due to that would just equal more searches being done.
    But.....sigh....for like the 3rd time that wont account for the 2.5% drop before this, you know the 11months when Google was pushing not MS.
     
  20. Jazajay

    Jazajay Active Member

    @Tim
    I ditched Google way back when they got caught cloaking utube videos in their results.
    Thats showing different content to the search engines then the user. You do that on any including Google and it's a ban. That was 2 years back maybe 3 now. But haven't really used them since then.

    @Cole
    That would only account for the last month not the 2.5% drop in the 11 months preceding that.:)

    Cheers to all for your contributions to this debate, like the way it's going and the opinions shared so far it's interesting. :)
     

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