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Brexit Poll

Discussion in 'General Business Forum:' started by Stationery Direct, Jun 15, 2016.

?

So which is it for you?

  1. IN

    5 vote(s)
    55.6%
  2. OUT

    2 vote(s)
    22.2%
  3. Not voting

    2 vote(s)
    22.2%
  1. Stationery Direct

    Stationery Direct Administrator Staff Member

    Brexit poll, just curious on how you will be voting?
     
  2. Paul Murray

    Paul Murray Moderator Staff Member

  3. hankscorpio

    hankscorpio Moderator Staff Member

    Can't believe it's even gone to vote. I think it would be madness for England to leave the EU.
     
  4. Levi

    Levi Moderator Staff Member

    I'm stuck because they don't give me the option I want....

    I want to stay in europe for the economic trade benefits (although that is actually reducing) but I feel that we give too much to europe in return for it and to be fair that's basically the only benefit I can see on europe at the moment.
    I have a problem with our 'no limits' to immigration because it causes issues with our housing (no space at the inn), benefits (why they should get any I have no idea) and emergency services (they're broke), not to mention the 'medical tourists' who just come over here to use our services for free (we never seem to get the money back from their country).

    And then there's the money we pay into the european 'tax system'.... there's only really 3/4 countries bankrolling most of Europe and we're one of them (that's why Germany want's us to stay, that and the fact that other countries would likely follow us) yet we've got so many financial issues ...

    Then there's the legal things where thee European court can overrule our own court making ours pointless and then there's things like human rights for prisoners where we can't boot out immigrants because they 'have a family' after killing someone ignoring the human rights of the killed persons family... For the record I feel prisons are too soft and that prisoners have too many rights, yes they should be fed, watered and kept warm but I don't see why a prison should be little more than a holiday camp.

    Basically I want the option where we get to completely control our country again.
    I'd like must have job already, limited numbers AND the employer must supply private housing to the foreign worker
    I'd like to make it so that Europeans have to have medical insurance to get treatment (except absolute emergencies)... hell I'd like to charge obese people, smokers and injuries related to excessive alcohol extra too
    Stop benefits to foreign workers (like the one where they get child support when their child isn't in the UK...) because I don't see why they should get any... and I think there should be a cap for UK claimants too, why should they get more than someone who works...
    I'd like it so that our court is the top court in this country (I have no issue with 'syncing' laws between countries)
     
    Paul Murray likes this.
  5. scotty

    scotty Well-Known Member

    I don't think I've registered? o_O
     
  6. ash

    ash Member

    Hi Levi,
    sorry for picking that one out, but it makes my blood boil every time I read something like that. An immigrant is basically an expat (someone moving from one country to another). I came to the UK back in 2004 because I wanted to study here, since then I have been working, paying my taxes/healthcare/pension etc. So good help it if I would be made redundant or had an accident/illness that would make me unfit to work that I would have the right to claim benefits like another. It is actually very difficult to get any state help if you are not born in the UK.

    With the other points I can mainly agree. But would it not be better for you to vote to leave the EU? The EEC would probably stay in tact, to grant free movement of workers and trade. But the deciding power would be brought back home.
     
  7. bigdave

    bigdave Moderator Staff Member

    I'm voting out.

    I'd like to be able to vote 'in' but the EU needs reform to make it work for everyone, unfortunately the few countries that it does work for point blank refuse any reform. Look at what David Cameron was offered when he tried to negotiate the UK's membership...
    • We get to keep the GBP (thank's a bunch).
    • Red card system for scrapping legislation that requires 55% of member states to object within 8 days. (Current rules for amending legislation require 35% of member states to object but this number has never been achieved so 55% is a farce).
    • No requirement to be involved in a 'closer union' (We get even less of a say in matters that directly involve us).

    I can guarantee that a good portion of forum members have uttered the words "bast**d Tories! f*cking the NHS on purpose to line their own pockets!" at some point since the last election. I have 4 letters for you... TTIP.
    TTIP is the trade agreement being drawn up between the USA and the EU. One of the key points in this agreement is an annual meeting between unelected delegates from the EU and the USA to review the annual trading of member state owned companies to ensure their is no unfair advantage over privately owned companies in the same sector. These delegates (who will not be represented by every EU member country) have the power to disband any state owned company they see as having an advantage, including the NHS! The EU were asked to ringfence the NHS to protect if from this agreement and they outright refused! So if you think David Cameron is a corrupt money grabbing asre.. Wait until the giant US medicare corporations get invoived!!
     
  8. Levi

    Levi Moderator Staff Member

    Ash, you don't say where you came from originally because EU and non EU are handled differently.

    I have no issue with 'immigration' (as long as they 'integrate'), what I have an issue is the amount of people that is coming into this country through immigration where we can't control the levels.
    Europe has 0 restraints on the number that can travel to the UK (and leave too) but non EU countries have limits on how many can come over here and stay/work.
    These same EU workers can get a 'council' house easier than a UK born person.

    It's a simple numbers issue in that we can not sustain the amount of people coming to the UK from Europe, hell we've already got housing issues with people born in the UK.
    I'll give you an example of the situation where I live, the average wage of a person is minimum wage (we're primarily a farming region) or just a little above it so say 15k a year tops, most farms now hire foreign labour at 'lower wages' (I know this as I know several foreign workers who are lovely people and work their behinds off). Due to housing not being built and the offshoot from London pushing up prices (who's buying all the London properties again...)the average price of a family house in this area is £200,000 but the highest mortgage a person can get is (according to the santander calculator) is £101,000 and that's with a 20,000 deposit. Clearly they can't afford to buy a house so they look to 'rent' a house are limited to the private market which isn't cheap because they don't qualify for a 'council' house because they both work etc. A non UK EU member can literally go up to the council and say I need a house to stay in and we have to give them one (eu law iirc).

    As to benefits they can get them, there are even guides online telling people what to say and what to do to get benefits in the UK, not saying all do it (the ones I know won't do it because they don't feel it's right to do it) but it is possible and can be done by EU members.

    Now it's been a while since I last checked on this but there used to be a deal for EU workers where if they came to the UK for 6months or less they could claim all their tax/NI back when they left so the UK actually loses out in that way too.

    @bigdave Eurovision syndrome hits the big time with EU voting, you've got your regional blocks which will ensure they never lose on the things that benefit them the most, ie the money from the 'rich 3/4 countries' because they have no money and need propping up like Greece does.
     
    Last edited: Jun 15, 2016
  9. ash

    ash Member

    Hi Levi,

    I am originally from Germany. And anyone moving from one country to another is an immigrant/expat. I was never eligible for a council house :( I simply lived in House shares with Chinese,Arabic, Italian, German, Spanish etc students and professionals, since we pretty much all were in the same boat. (please don't take me literal here ;P). To go up to the council to demand a 'house' you would have to have lived in the UK for a minimum of 3 years (registered) or be an asylum seeker (but in that case you would not get a house, but 'shelter'),. With benefits it's similar (I can only speak for EU immigrants here, I have no clue how non-EU and specific visas are handled) You have to proof that you have lived in the UK for a minimum of 3 years, you have to lay all you income open and you pretty much get frisked. I did look into it a lot during university time, since had a grand income of £6000 per annum and had a bout £20 per week for food :( and I did not qualify for income support or housing benefits since I only lived in the UK for about 2 years.

    Thus the house shares :) Germany has a similar welfare system, but it is pretty hard on the natives :(
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 15, 2016
  10. Levi

    Levi Moderator Staff Member

    It must have changed since you came over because I've seen what I said above locally so I know it happens. Maybe it was because you came to study instead of work first?

    ps. Fixed double quote :)
     
  11. Stationery Direct

    Stationery Direct Administrator Staff Member

    The TTIP (and what it could mean for the NHS) is worrying and really from what I have read today the only way to get out of that is to vote out (correct me if I am wrong).
     
    bigdave likes this.
  12. ash

    ash Member

    Thanks, I am still fairly new to a the forum and blogging world. It tool me a while to figure out how to quote and reply :)
     
  13. @GCarlD

    @GCarlD Well-Known Member

    @Levi What kind of holiday camps do you go on!?!? I am no expert but I always wonder where people get that idea from???

    I agree with many of your points though, especially with the housing...
     
  14. @GCarlD

    @GCarlD Well-Known Member

    I am not voting, why? Because of all of the above reasons. I do not believe me voting one way or another would be the correct vote. I also do no believe there is a 'right' vote. They are both seriously flawed and makes, making a decision impossible. It is as though if I vote one way or another I am contradicting myself. I am not one to sit on the fence either...
     
    ash likes this.
  15. Levi

    Levi Moderator Staff Member

    I was maybe exaggerating a little but when you see what some prisoners actually have in their cells you do wonder why they have all of it as it's not exactly punishment when they have things like a ps3 etc. In the olden days it used to be a radio/tv if you were lucky and you were there to be punished not treated to all your creature comforts from home.
     
  16. @GCarlD

    @GCarlD Well-Known Member

    A small TV/radio yes, but I'm sure the average joe does not get PS3s etc... If I am wrong, (and that's a big IF) you could then argue that, if they are allowed TVs, then is that not more of a luxury than a PS3 for most people?
     
  17. Levi

    Levi Moderator Staff Member

  18. @GCarlD

    @GCarlD Well-Known Member

    (I briefly scanned the article so I haven't read the ins and outs of it) I see this is something new within the last couple of years. Point proven! (y). Although, I am sure not everyone is permitted them, more than likely a select few dependent on circumstances such as; behaviour, release date, ethnicity (yes I went there), so on and so forth. Like I can well imagine these so called celebs getting pretty much anything they want.

    Still far from a holiday camp though, with or without exaggeration (unless they are a celeb).
     
  19. ash

    ash Member

    My colleague just shared this with me when we were discussing if we should pack our suitcases for Thursday. This cheered me up a lot :)

     
  20. scotty

    scotty Well-Known Member

    That's awful that you'd consider leaving the UK if they chose to leave even if it was jokingly.
    As a visitor/immigrant to the UK does it make you feel that way?

    Interested to hear your perspective @ash.
     

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