Adobe essentially forcing updates.


Jri

Member
Hey!

I use some Adobe apps more than others, so naturally things like Photoshop, Illustrator etc are all regularly updated - but the ones I use less frequently are just old versions that I use once in a blue moon.

On Friday, I noticed an email from Adobe that essentially read:

'We have recently discontinued certain older versions of Creative Cloud applications and as a result, under the terms of our agreement, you are no longer licensed to use them. Our records show that you may be using the following version(s) of these applications.'

<It went on to list apps that I downloaded ages ago, use sporadically but still need>
'Please be aware that should you continue to use the discontinued version(s), you may be at risk of potential claims of infringement by third parties.'

I understand what they're saying, - but it seems like a clumsy move for Adobe to go to a monthly subscription model (which was contentious to begin with) then allow older versions to become legally illegitimate?

I know the upgrades are 'free' and that the solution is simple, I now need to download a bunch of brand new versions of extra apps that I hardly ever use.

Just got under my skin a bit, what are your thoughts?
 

hankscorpio

Moderator
Staff member
Here's a good write-up on here

So your gripe is that apps that you are not really using are requesting you update them? So update them and keep on not using them.

A lot of the times updates are based around a lot of things like program stability and security issues, so it's best to keep your applications up to date.

Creative Cloud is a licensed product which you agree to their terms and conditions when you purchase.

I think it's a stupid move from Adobe, clearly keeping older versions up to date through the cloud is problematic for them.
 

Jri

Member
I think it's a stupid move from Adobe, clearly keeping older versions up to date through the cloud is problematic for them.
Just seems like a good old fashioned shafting. The monthly thing allows them to keep their terms fluid and things can be discontinued/deactivated at the drop of a hat, and at a premium no less.

Also, my nap was disrupted so I'm cranky.
 

AysheaS

Member
I understand what they're saying, - but it seems like a clumsy move for Adobe to go to a monthly subscription model (which was contentious to begin with) then allow older versions to become legally illegitimate?
People were downloading copies of Adobe software illegally which was losing them revenue - it's hard for a software company to keep a head of hacks as someone always finds a way round. That's one reason why they went to subscription and it's not just them, other software companies have moved to subscription. Plus of course if you want to keep opening your files you have to have an active subscription - probably the biggest reason. Also security too - any vulnerabilities can easily be fixed and an update sent out. Gone are the days of discs, nearly everyone just downloads stuff now - I don't even have a disc drive.

So you either keeping paying Adobe for the latest software which is the industry standard (and don't they know that! so another reason your forced into it) or find some other software (Affinity perhaps?). Adobe have a monopoly pretty much.
 

scotty

Moderator
Staff member
Sound like Adobe just want to piss users of more and more.

I'm off to but some shares in Serif and pick out my new sports car.
 

Levi

Moderator
Staff member
People were downloading copies of Adobe software illegally which was losing them revenue - it's hard for a software company to keep a head of hacks as someone always finds a way roun
Rather naive viewpoint... like a lot of 'big monopolies' in the design world they're quite happy to lose a few sales from illegal versions (including the latest CC versions although not condoning it obviously), usually to those who wouldn't pay in the first place because they're from a 'poor country' or because they students, it keeps them in the position as the 'go to product' for the industry.

Why do you think we've got to the stage where even a non tech person will know about photoshop and ask you to design something for peanuts using it because they've know a friends pet dog with their own copy.

I really do wish there were some viable alternatives that were more readily used by people in the industry, even more so if it didn't include renting the software (I hate renting/leasing stuff where I never own it, it just makes no sense to me)
 
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AysheaS

Member
Rather naive viewpoint... like a lot of 'big monopolies' in the design world they're quite happy to lose a few sales from illegal versions (including the latest CC versions although not condoning it obviously), usually to those who wouldn't pay in the first place because they're from a 'poor country' or because they students, it keeps them in the position as the 'go to product' for the industry.

Why do you think we've got to the stage where even a non tech person will know about photoshop and ask you to design something for peanuts using it because they've know a friends pet dog with their own copy.

I really do with there were some viable alternatives that were more readily used by people in the industry, even more so if it didn't include renting the software (I hate renting/leasing stuff where I never own it, it just makes no sense to me)
You didn't quote the rest of my post or you didn't read it.
 

Jri

Member
People were downloading copies of Adobe software illegally which was losing them revenue - it's hard for a software company to keep a head of hacks as someone always finds a way round. That's one reason why they went to subscription and it's not just them, other software companies have moved to subscription. Plus of course if you want to keep opening your files you have to have an active subscription - probably the biggest reason. Also security too - any vulnerabilities can easily be fixed and an update sent out. Gone are the days of discs, nearly everyone just downloads stuff now - I don't even have a disc drive.

So you either keeping paying Adobe for the latest software which is the industry standard (and don't they know that! so another reason your forced into it) or find some other software (Affinity perhaps?). Adobe have a monopoly pretty much.
The subscription model itself isn't really what I'm grumbling about as such - more the fact that your license for apps is mucked up by not updating. Seems unnecessary.
 

AysheaS

Member
Even in the days of discs you never owned the software just a license to use it and that makes you bound by Adobe's terms. They don't want to keep supporting multiple versions because it costs them money. Not exactly the same because Microsoft don't stop you using older versions of Windows but they stop supporting older versions and in the end it forces many people to upgrade.

@Levi, well you will have read where I said that isn't the main reason (and I also mentioned their monopoly). There are several in my opinion, illegal downloads being one of them but forcing professionals to keep paying Adobe every month is a biggie - before a designer didn't have to upgrade the could buy a version and use it for many years. The new way means the money doesn't stop coming in for them month after month, year after year.

I disagree with you about students though because now many they just pay for the Adobe suite but at a reduce rate rather than getting an illegal copy. I did a HND many years ago, back then dodgy copies of Quark Xpress, FreeHand and Photoshop were being sold by one of the tutors, I think back in the old days we each slipped the tutor a fiver for them. Last year I went back and a lot of the class were paying the student license. It is still the go to software but now the students are £16 a month ish, so £192 a year. Then when they are no longer a student they just carry on paying each month but the amount has gone up - they probably don't even think about it. Bit like people who don't check their gas bills and keeping pay over the odds rather than switching. Once their in the habit of paying a monthly fee many won't even notice the price has gone up.
 

hankscorpio

Moderator
Staff member
Nobody is being forced to use Adobe software. There are plenty of alternative software.

Illustrator to name a few:
Inkscape, Corel Draw, Affinity Design, Libre, Synfig

Indesign:
Quark, Affinity Publisher (in beta), Scribus (free)

Photoshop:
Affinity Photo, GIMP, and a few others I can't remember.

To be clear - it's not a forcing issue - Adobe have their pricing structure and you agree to pay for it or you don't. There's plenty of other software out there if you don't agree with their pricing model.

Adobe is geared towards professionals - and it has a very good price point, I think it works out about €50 per month or thereabouts for what I need to do - and if I am not making €50 per month then I'm in the wrong business.


People need to get over the fact that it's a subscription-based model of payment, it's your choice if you want it. You're not forced into it.
 

Levi

Moderator
Staff member
Even in the days of discs you never owned the software just a license to use it and that makes you bound by Adobe's terms. They don't want to keep supporting multiple versions because it costs them money. Not exactly the same because Microsoft don't stop you using older versions of Windows but they stop supporting older versions and in the end it forces many people to upgrade.
The software doesn't stop working though with the old non CC, the software still works (well to a point) it's the support and updates that stop. With CC when you stop paying you don't have access to the software in any way shape or form.

@Levi, well you will have read where I said that isn't the main reason (and I also mentioned their monopoly). There are several in my opinion, illegal downloads being one of them but forcing professionals to keep paying Adobe every month is a biggie - before a designer didn't have to upgrade the could buy a version and use it for many years. The new way means the money doesn't stop coming in for them month after month, year after year.

I disagree with you about students though because now many they just pay for the Adobe suite but at a reduce rate rather than getting an illegal copy. I did a HND many years ago, back then dodgy copies of Quark Xpress, FreeHand and Photoshop were being sold by one of the tutors, I think back in the old days we each slipped the tutor a fiver for them. Last year I went back and a lot of the class were paying the student license. It is still the go to software but now the students are £16 a month ish, so £192 a year. Then when they are no longer a student they just carry on paying each month but the amount has gone up - they probably don't even think about it. Bit like people who don't check their gas bills and keeping pay over the odds rather than switching. Once their in the habit of paying a monthly fee many won't even notice the price has gone up.
As I said naive viewpoint... trust me when I say you can still run a pirated version of cc, while I don't do it myself I know how to get it and where from (no I'm not saying how or where). Adobe (and others that do the same thing) are not worried about the 'little people' that use their software, they only care about businesses continuing to pay and they do this by ensuring they are the 'go to software' from an early stage, for many that early stage is via pirated software. Think about this way, what hurts Adobe more, losing future long term business customers to Affinity or letting a small percentage of users continue to use illegal versions but in doing so maintaining their monopoly.... while Affinity might be a good piece of software and highly praised by people on this forum the amount of people using that in big business is like a drop of rain in an ocean compared with how ingrained adobe is in the industry.

And seriously... your tutors charged you for the dodgy copies...lol

@hankscorpio My issue isn't the cost (compared with some of my software adobe monthly fee is pocket change), it's lack of actually owning anything, even after multiple years of paying. If you lease a car you can buy it out at the end or continuing paying it off to own it, same goes for mobile phones on contracts.

Adobe is essentially selling their software as a service, that will stop when you stop paying, when it's not a service it's a product, this is what I disagree with.
 

scotty

Moderator
Staff member
As I see it, It's not like Adobe have just become the industry standard by the quality of their product.

In some ways it's been steered that way into a monopoly position.

I recall my choice of vector software was Freehand which was its main competitor back in the day but Adobe bought them out and shelved it.
I was forced over to Ai but not through choice of my own.
 

hankscorpio

Moderator
Staff member
@hankscorpio My issue isn't the cost (compared with some of my software adobe monthly fee is pocket change), it's lack of actually owning anything, even after multiple years of paying. If you lease a car you can buy it out at the end or continuing paying it off to own it, same goes for mobile phones on contracts.

Adobe is essentially selling their software as a service, that will stop when you stop paying, when it's not a service it's a product, this is what I disagree with.
I see where you're coming from, and I totally understand.

I bought my car under PCP - meaning I either owe €7500 if I wish to own the car at the end of deal. Or I can buy a new car under PCP and enter a new agreement with them. Or I can hand the car back and have no car.

Adobe don't offer this, meaning after 4 years I can't go to Adobe and say - here's €200 and I can now own the software.

It was actually like this back in the day, you could buy the software and pay €700 or something for it. Then you could if you wanted to upgrade the software pay something like €150.

But as said, there was issues around copyright, and they also wanted to move to a cloud flavour to stop the shipping/producing phase of their products, it's all delivered digitally.

A lot of people went subscription model, but I think Adobe have got it right.

If you want the software then pay either a yearly subscription fee for the entire year, and if you want to keep using it the following year - you have to pay again - fair enough... and with this you get all the bells and whistles of new features when they are released, while keeping your previous version of the software.

A lot of people don't upgrade to the latest version, as you likely end up being a beta tester for the latest release - which is wrong too - so you need to keep the last version and work with that until all the bugs are out of the new version.


There's so much to say about it I'm just going to stop there.
 

hankscorpio

Moderator
Staff member
As I see it, It's not like Adobe have just become the industry standard by the quality of their product.

In some ways it's been steered that way into a monopoly position.

I recall my choice of vector software was Freehand which was its main competitor back in the day but Adobe bought them out and shelved it.
I was forced over to Ai but not through choice of my own.
But you weren't forced, Freehand was Macromedia, bought by Adobe, and they shelved it.
You could have went with Corel Draw or something else.

It's really that Adobe didn't really have a competitor when it came to the full suite of products.

Back in the day the combo was Quark, Illustrator and Photoshop.

But once Adobe released InDesign, then it was the combo complete and all under one package.

Quark never released their own Illy/Photoshop which I feel is a mistake.

For years, nobody has come close to a complete package or suite of products. And that's not Adobe's fault, they did it, and they are thriving.

Affinity is making great strides - and definitely worth taking a look at.
 

Levi

Moderator
Staff member
To be fair I wouldn't exactly say Adobe have been knocking out the 'updates' that they sort of sold subscription service on, if anything I've seen less improvements since the change because Adobe have less incentive to update software when they've got you over a barrel with a monthly fee. At least when it was a fully paid for piece of software they were more inclined to do improvements etc to encourage upgrades etc.

I don't have an issue with needing to update to a newer version for stability/fixes but that isn't really the case here with this request to update. From what I've read online it seems to be linked to a licensing issue (likely dolby) which means is quite comical that that they're essentially passing the blame/buck onto users when it is something Adobe should have been paying for or had more appropriate licensing for.
 

Jri

Member
I feel I was although I could have hung up my design spurs up in protest.
I wear chaps for designing in.

What's the transition to affinity suite like for anyone who's gone from a completely Adobe background? Can you output to any of Adobe's proprietary files (.AI, .PSD etc...), and if so what's the cross compatibility like?
 

hankscorpio

Moderator
Staff member
Can you output to any of Adobe's proprietary files (.AI, .PSD etc...), and if so what's the cross compatibility like?
You can for Photo export to -
Full Save or Export List
  • Adobe® Photoshop® PSD
  • TIFF (layers preserved)
  • PNG
  • JPG
  • Progressive JPG
  • GIF
  • SVG
  • EPS
  • EXR (Open EXR)
  • HDR (Radiance)
  • PDF (can also be opened in Adobe® Illustrator®)
  • PDF/X-1a, PDF/X-3, PDF/X-4
  • Affinity Designer (Affinity common file format)


And their Illustrator version

Full Save or Export List
  • Adobe® Photoshop® PSD
  • PDF (can be opened in Adobe® Illustrator®)
  • SVG
  • EPS
  • TIFF
  • PNG
  • JPG
  • GIF
  • EXR (Open EXR)
  • HDR (Radiance)
  • Affinity Designer (Affinity common file format)


One of the main things with the Affinity Publisher for me was the ability to open a PDF in the software, and straightaway you could start editing it.

Edit a full PDF in minutes.

At the moment to edit a PDF you need to open it page by page in Illustrator, or edit in Acrobat etc.

But Affinity Publisher just lets you open the PDF directly, make edits and that's it. Done.
 
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