Freeway Pro, Site Grinder...?

Esh

Member
You shouldn't be using shit like sitegrinder if you position yourself as a professional. And as a "professional" you should know that and also know reasons of why you shouldn't be using it.

You may get a way with a few clients who don't know anything about web design but more experienced ones will laugh at the site that you quickly knocked off using sitegrinder. The choice is yours

I don't really think there is any need for the harsh attacking tone. I asked a simple question about software, and have had some very useful answers. It's nice hearing everyones opinions but completely slagging some one off and basically calling them unprofessional is unnecessary. Your first reply had a harsh tone to it too. All you need to do is state/explain your reasons behind your point like the other two 'replyees' did (made that up sorry!).

However thanks everyone for your input, I've looked at the tutorials suggested earlier, and the coding aspect isn't as boring as it looks when you start to get into it! :icon_smile:
 

dedwardp

Member
I don't really think there is any need for the harsh attacking tone. I asked a simple question about software, and have had some very useful answers. It's nice hearing everyones opinions but completely slagging some one off and basically calling them unprofessional is unnecessary. Your first reply had a harsh tone to it too. All you need to do is state/explain your reasons behind your point like the other two 'replyees' did (made that up sorry!).

However thanks everyone for your input, I've looked at the tutorials suggested earlier, and the coding aspect isn't as boring as it looks when you start to get into it! :icon_smile:

Repliers? :icon_tongue_smilie:

And no, coding is actually quite good fun I find when you start playing around - it does become incredibly frustrating though when you, inevitably, get stuck and simply can't fathom out what the problem is and why something isn't quite loading correctly!
 

socreative

Member
I gave reasons in my very first post and I don't think it was harsh. Just keep on learning and very soon you will have a good laugh at sitegrinder and alikes yourself
 

Corrosive

Well-Known Member
haha no that's exactly what I was after.

I'm aware of the HTML text issue, and so were they, but they weren't too bothered - just wanted it to look nice. I guess I could add a footer. Alt text doesn't really cut it I think.

Ah ha, there are ways and means of using non 'web-safe' fonts nowadays. Check out; Fonts.com Web Fonts , Google Font Directory and Web fonts with @font-face - CSS3 . Info for some ideas on that.

As for most of the other issues, they seem to be issues with the way Freeway generates the code. It's useful info for me because I can decide if it's the way I want to move forward, or whether I'd be better teaming up with someone more expert who can deal with the coding side for me.

I'd happily do an information/learning exchange with you as far as swapping good design and layout practices (your area of expertise) and hand coding layouts (mine). Maybe mail me some time to discuss.

Workflow wise, if they want a change, yes I have to redo the whole page, but that's really really simple in Freeway - just like changing an element on a page layout. Then I just re-up that part of the site.

Still seems inflexible and fairly convoluted. We like to offer CMS to customers so they can add and edit content to get up the search rankings so pages need to be easily recreated based on a solid HTML/CSS template. But that's just us and how we work.

I appreciate the idea of a campaign for good code - it's probably the kind of thing that would irritate me if I was in your shoes, just like bad typography gets on my nerves when I see it from people claiming to be 'designers'.

We should make some placards (with good typography) and go and start a protest :)
 

Corrosive

Well-Known Member
However thanks everyone for your input, I've looked at the tutorials suggested earlier, and the coding aspect isn't as boring as it looks when you start to get into it! :icon_smile:

It really isn't boring and can be satisfying/frustrating in equal measures!
 

alashwood

New Member
Hi guys
Let's get back to the original question. 6 years ago, I was struggling with Dreamweaver, teaching myself. I got on OK, but Dw was a bit heavy duty for what I needed then, with a huge learning curve. Tried a few others then came across Freeway. I haven't looked back. I now have FW Pro 5, and I've never found any reason to switch up to Dreamweaver, although I do have CS4.
I'd recommend FreeWay Pro to anybody, but particularly to someone like me when I was a newbie (still am).
Cheers
Alan
 

Corrosive

Well-Known Member
I'd recommend FreeWay Pro to anybody, but particularly to someone like me when I was a newbie (still am).
Cheers
Alan

Hi Alan

I am interested if you think that using Freeway has actually prevented you from furthering your knowledge of coding? Not a critisism of you but a genuine query.
 

Katedesign

Well-Known Member
Have quickly read all this lot and agree with Corrosive - what is the (real) point of a website if you aren't climbing up the search lists?

I have taught myself to code and do find it interesting - nearly said fun! But when you sort out the bit that suddenly make the whole thing work - wow!

Client (for graphic design) just said that she had been quoted between £700 and £140 for a four or five page wesbite and was of course "going for the £140 one". When I suggested that perhaps you get what you pay for in terms of design, coding & SEO etc she began to realise what I was actually saying. For a new website it helps to have lean code to get to the first page of G quickly... it is worth learning!!
 

alashwood

New Member
Hi Alan

I am interested if you think that using Freeway has actually prevented you from furthering your knowledge of coding? Not a critisism of you but a genuine query.

I didn't say it stopped me doing anything.

I came from an ink on paper graphics background, y'know InDesign, PhotoShop, etc. Moving to web based graphics was, for me traumatic. None of it made sense.

Forget furthering my knowledge, I needed to get moving in web stuff; there was food to be put on the table.

Or maybe it's the same reason I've always used Macs - they (and Freeway) just work!

I don't really care what's happening under the hood, as long as it's happening.

Cheers
Alan
 
I didn't say it stopped me doing anything.

I came from an ink on paper graphics background, y'know InDesign, PhotoShop, etc. Moving to web based graphics was, for me traumatic. None of it made sense.

Forget furthering my knowledge, I needed to get moving in web stuff; there was food to be put on the table.

Or maybe it's the same reason I've always used Macs - they (and Freeway) just work!

I don't really care what's happening under the hood, as long as it's happening.

Cheers
Alan


Same for me. I've found that doing things in Freeway has then made it easier for me to get into a bit of limited coding. And now I'm onto Wordpress and able to tweak themes a bit using tutorials on the t'internet.
 
Have quickly read all this lot and agree with Corrosive - what is the (real) point of a website if you aren't climbing up the search lists?

I have taught myself to code and do find it interesting - nearly said fun! But when you sort out the bit that suddenly make the whole thing work - wow!

Client (for graphic design) just said that she had been quoted between £700 and £140 for a four or five page wesbite and was of course "going for the £140 one". When I suggested that perhaps you get what you pay for in terms of design, coding & SEO etc she began to realise what I was actually saying. For a new website it helps to have lean code to get to the first page of G quickly... it is worth learning!!

Depends what you think a website is for. A lot of my clients use it as a point of reference - a digital brochure. So where they are in Google actually isn't that important to them - they're not selling anything directly off the site. Being high in the rankings is just a 'nice to have'.

In the graphic design business, for instance most of my work comes through word of mouth or me going out and talking to people. I've never had any work through my Yellow pages ads and I wouldn't expect any purely through the website. The kind of clients I work with and want don't really work that way.
 

Katedesign

Well-Known Member
I do agree - most work comes through recommendation. Used to work for a printers and we did get a lot of work from the website - so it was useful to be near the top of G. But people do do local searches for services so it can help to be near the front!
 

Corrosive

Well-Known Member
I do agree - most work comes through recommendation. Used to work for a printers and we did get a lot of work from the website - so it was useful to be near the top of G. But people do do local searches for services so it can help to be near the front!

We get more work than we can handle through our website and have the luxury of being able to turn down jobs we don't like the look of. All from the comfort of our own office and whilst we sit and listen to tunes and get on with doing what we actually enjoy. But, as the guys have pointed out, everyone and every business is different.

Please point us in the direction of the customer who says 'I don't want to do well in Google' though. I'd love to meet them because that is the first or second thing we get asked when we are in a preliminary meeting! :icon_smile:
 

Esh

Member
To be fair, there are so many websites, that the vast majority will never make it to or near the top of Google, for one reason or another. I know a lot of SEO people who claim the earth, but still can't manage to get websites to the first few pages. There are literally millions of websites, and even at a local level, If I type in 'freelance graphic designer', the number of pages is ridiculous, and most of them will probably never be seen, not through the likes of Google anyway. I don't even have a website (yet) but still manage to get work. Obviously you're designing for an online store, than it's much different as they're relying on web traffic for their sales, but still, due to the shear amount, most never, maybe never will, reach the first few pages. Those that are serious about 'making Google, generally have to fork out shed loads of money, on web marketing etc to boost their rankings.
That said, I was pretty shocked the other day to see a Wix flash website near the top of a search, where there were umpteen competitors. I guess theres an element of hit and miss, as well as planning!
I've now come across plenty of people who make their living creating websites using Wix :)icon_eek:), WebPlus, Freeway, and nonoe of them have any problems whatsoever, and the cleints are completely happy with their end product. As said already, It much depends on the sites purpose.
Either way, I'm learning all the coding/web building stuff simply because it will help my case should I decide to look for another full-time design position in the future, as most roles now require HTML/CSS skills. :icon_rolleyes:
 
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It's not good. The typography's not great and the layouts you're given are incredibly generic and not particularly nice. The main problem for me is that you want the design to fit in with your client's corporate Id and this way it won't. It's like using cheap stock photography - it's ok, to a certain level, but everyone will know you've used stock photography and that's probably not the image you want to project.
 
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