What is the logic behind an agency using Quark to design websites?

I started off as a print designer then started doing web also and can now class myself as a web developer too...

My theory behind designing for web is design first, worry about how your going to make it work later and by designing it without worrying too much about how your going to build it, it challenges you to become a better developer and learn things you never would have known otherwise.

I think designing for web in quark or indesign is a ridiculous idea though! most ppl that do that don't even consider screen resolution, set the document up to pixel size etc,

It's like giving a litho printer a word document.... you can faff about and make it work but the result won't be good.
 
tbwcf said:
I started off as a print designer then started doing web also and can now class myself as a web developer too...

My theory behind designing for web is design first, worry about how your going to make it work later and by designing it without worrying too much about how your going to build it, it challenges you to become a better developer and learn things you never would have known otherwise. .
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I think we singing of the same sheet.
Get the idea first.

I'm all for good quality build and coding is the tough end of the stick as you have to make it work and work effectivly. But wouldn't you rather build a Ferrari than a Lada?
 
tbwcf said:
My theory behind designing for web is design first, worry about how your going to make it work later and by designing it without worrying too much about how your going to build it, it challenges you to become a better developer and learn things you never would have known otherwise.
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Unfortunately that's a pretty bad theory though. You should always look ahead! Case in point, right now I'm redesigning a pretty large website, and the original designers and developers were web designers who did think ahead and did worry. As a result I've managed to redesign the whole site so far without touching the markup once! An example of how things should be done. Pretty much perfectly done: costs kept down, quality kept up. You will not get that if you let a print designer sort your site out.

Getting someone who isn't a web designer to design a website is not a good idea.
 
I'm primarily a print designer, that has dabbled with the odd website layout that has been passed over to someone else to code. I try to consider how a website needs to be produced as part of the design process. It's like any brief, there are always limitations and an effective design needs to work within the briefs parameters.

However, I think it's very dangerous for the code to lead the design and not vice versa. If this was the standard approach surely nothing new or original would ever be produced.

Once you've identified the limitations you can either settle for working within them or figure out a way to push past them. I personally believe that the working relationship between designer and coder (in this situation) is where the design will either succeed or fail.
If something is tricky to produce surely the question is: "How can this be achieved?" Rather than: "How can the design be amended?"
 
Krey20 said:
However, I think it's very dangerous for the code to lead the design and not vice versa. If this was the standard approach surely nothing new or original would ever be produced.
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Code shouldn't lead design, but the design should be made with code and maintainability in mind. Design quality isn't restricted by code one bit, but your design can restrict your code quality.
 
Harry said:
Code shouldn't lead design, but the design should be made with code and maintainability in mind. Design quality isn't restricted by code one bit, but your design can restrict your code quality.
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I have to agree with this particular quote.

I don't think it matters how you create your ideas or where you put them (paper, pc, napkin, quark) but, I think you do have to think ahead; yes have a great design, but its no good if
A) users can't find their way around it,
B) you spend so long coding it to relevant standards, cross-browser, accessibility etc, that you've actually lost money from the time its taken.

I think its totally about planning what the site will do, who will use it, how they will use it.... as they say content is king.

OP - I would try and explain to them that, although using Quark isn't bad for visuals (as Berry suggested) it will only increase work time when it comes to converting the design into a full blown coded website.
If you can back-up your reasons for doing things in a particular manner, I'm sure they will be willing to hear you out?
 
The same reason it's bad to get a plumber to perform neurosurgery—you won't get great results.
 
I'm primarily a Web Designer who dabbles a bit in Print Design as well. And I have to say I understand where Harry is coming from.

I always design website layouts with the development in mind (and you can still pull off very nice and experimental designs while still having valid markup and avoiding hacks etc. But a web designer will know more about the limitations of the web and how to create the best possible design within those limits.

For me the primary goal for any website is that it's functional, fast, user friendly, accessible and able to deliver the content in the best way possible, on as many platforms as possible.

Designing for web is about making it as easy as you can for the user to navigate the site, and find what they're looking for, not only producing nice visuals. Kind of like Computer Games. It doesn't matter if the packaging is nice and the graphics are amazing if the gameplay is rubbish.

I know that if we don't try to push it everything will look the same. But methods and techniques in web design are evolving all the time. So eventually we will be able to pull any design off while still having valid code (hopefully :)).
 
Design is design. Whatever you design you face the same problems, processes and often outcomes. as a designer you SHOULD be capable of working on any project, even a nuclear reactor - sure you would need to collaborate with engineers/scientists but you would still be able to bring some creative thinking to the table, its about addressing and solving problems. whatever the field.
 
br3n said:
Design is design. Whatever you design you face the same problems, processes and often outcomes. as a designer you SHOULD be capable of working on any project, even a nuclear reactor - sure you would need to collaborate with engineers/scientists but you would still be able to bring some creative thinking to the table, its about addressing and solving problems. whatever the field.
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I'd Kah Booooommmm!! that with non serif font 36pt too!

Totally agree. creativity is thought. Leonardo Da Vinci didn't make the submarine or aeroplane, but he invented the concept, and his thinking wasn't shackled by the limitations that he knew/ ( big type means I'm wired about this.)
 
rossnorthernunion said:
Yeah but was he any good at plumbing?
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if he could draw a perfect circle with his left hand then I'd let him change a washer on the taps or plumb the dishwasher anyday. I can't do a perfect circle with Quark
 
He's not touching my dishwasher - he might have designed a bloody dishwasher in 578AD but he's never gonna get his hands on my stopclock. That laminate floor will be ruined!
 
One thing I've seen mentioned a lot in this thread is 'valid code'. Just because code is valid doesn't make it good.
 
Update**

It's all come to the crunch here now, board meeting about to take place!!

The next installment is that somebody from the print team has coined the idea "We should be using illustrator to design web sites"

God give me strength.

Guys n Gals,

Thanks ever so much for you comments, been interesting to find out the thoughts of other professionals whether I agree with them or not.

I do agree that a designer should be able to turn his hand to almost anything. And yes we should be pushing the design to its absolute limits, but there has to be an understanding of the medium if designers don't have that web or print, it can create huge problems, case in point.

cd
 
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