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Retina Pixel Query CSS

Discussion in 'Website Design Forum:' started by smadamij, Jun 29, 2012.

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  1. smadamij

    smadamij Member

    Hi Guys

    Just want to find out if anyone has successfully worked out a way of balancing load times with having to now import 2 images - one for standard viewers and now the Retina displays. Ive written a script that detects the pixel ratio but there must be a way for me to stop it loading both images in THEN choosing?

    Seems to be that one solution causes another problem. Love a challenge but this payoff is causing me headaches on a friday.

    Any advice gratefully receved

    Jim
     
  2. Levi

    Levi Moderator Staff Member

    lol, there is no such thing as a 'retina' display, it's just a marketing term dreamed up by apple.

    It's just a high(er) resolution screen, the pixels are no different, just smaller and more densely packed.

    Just design the site like you would normally when accounting for a larger screen res, you're basically making a mountain out of a mole hill.
     
  3. glenwheeler

    glenwheeler Senior Member

    Dude, I pop onto these forums every other month and continuously see replies from you that are of no help at all to others. Your attitude to peoples questions really do annoy the hell out of me. You've probably already noticed that you not one of my favourites on the forum, and its because of this attitude you take to answering peoples simple questions.

    The guy has asked a very good question and in no way is he "making mountains out of mole hills". If you have ever worked with responsive websites or even websites specifically built for retina display then you know creating websites and graphics for such devices takes a hell of a lot of time and consideration, this includes the size of graphics, optimising the pages in certain ways.

    So, Smadamij maybe take a look at this to give you an idea of what the bigger boys are/we're doing for their own website. I am sure you'll take a lot away from it

    Apple.com upgrading to high-resolution images ahead of Retina iPad launch
     
  4. Levi

    Levi Moderator Staff Member

    Personally I don't care if you like me or not.... wait didn't you start disliking me when I didn't like your work (iirc it was when you were designing your business site around a F1 theme)... but hey like I said I'm not bothered.

    And you know it's so nice when someone is selective in their 'quotations'.... you just happened to neglect to mention the bit before the mountain out of a mole hill.... you know the bit that says you treat it no differently to ANY LARGER SCREEN RES.... but then you wouldn't be able to have a rant and look like you're being clever....

    But then that doesn't cover the retina display aspect of my post.... which you again completely ignored... but then you wouldn't want to go into the fact that I'm right about it being no more than a marketing term for a higher res display, something WINDOWS and LINUX have fully supported for probably a decade or more now..... so the method of working with retina displays is NO DIFFERENT to working with a site that is designed to work with HIGHER resolutions...

    People have had to design for larger resolution displays for a few years now, it's not anything new just because apple have put a higher resolution display into their ipad... there were 30" displays long before that with higher than hi def resolutions (hi def = 720p-1080p)

    EDIT: just to clear it up in case I wasn't clear.

    a resolution of 1920x1080 on a 7" display is no different to 1920x1080 on a 27" display, there's the same number of pixels on both, they are just larger on the 27" display, therefore if you design a site for 1920x1080 for example it will appear EXACTLY the same on both displays, just one will be smaller and 'crisper' when viewed close up due to the screen sizes and difference in the pixel sizes.

    EDIT 2: Glen your link isn't really any more useful than your opinion of my comment, it's a rumour site showing how apple are supporting higher resolutions, not how to actually do it...
    so heres a link that might be a bit more useful but then it is only from 2010 and may be a bit out of date. There's likely plenty more up to date ones if you do a google
     
  5. glenwheeler

    glenwheeler Senior Member

    No mate, i've never liked you to be honest I think you talk out your arse really.

    The guy didn't speak a word about screen resolution, he was asking about optimising for retina display. You totally ignored his question and gave nothing back than anything over than talking out your arse with the Mountains out of mole hills comment.

    Read his question and answer. You dont need to bore me with the facts. I'm not trying to be clever but I could find a number of posts where you've commented like this.
     
  6. Levi

    Levi Moderator Staff Member

    feel free to waste your time finding posts to back up your opinion which means nothing to me, like I say I really don't care if you like me or not. Personally I don't have time to waste on trivial things like that but hey your work must be slow if you have got time for it....

    I answered the post, you're the one who can't accept the fact that I'm actually right. A retina display is nothing more than a marketing term for a higher resolution display.... it's apple marketing at it's finest and it looks like it caught another one, you, in the reality distortion field.

    I could have gone into the details about what makes a 'retina' display but I didn't because it wasn't relevant to the issue the original poster had, he had a resolution related issue. An issue that would not only have affected a 'new' ipad but any display with a higher than normal resolution. He/She was looking at it in a way that was over complicating things (hence my mountain out of a mole hill that you decided to selectively quote), assuming the retina display was different to any other higher res display. My post informed him/her that he/she didn't need to, seeing as the op was a web designer, it deemed it unnecessary to elaborate unless further questions were raised.
     
  7. glenwheeler

    glenwheeler Senior Member

    For god sake mate, they guy is not asking about what a retina display is.

    His post...

    "Just want to find out if anyone has successfully worked out a way of balancing load times with having to now import 2 images"
     
  8. Levi

    Levi Moderator Staff Member

    again with the selective quoting to 'prove' your argument.

    came straight after your selected bit... pretty clear that references retina display....

    Maybe if you read the whole post instead of just the bits you want to use to argue with me for no reason you may actually come to realise that the information I replied with was actually relevant and correct...
     
  9. Squiddy

    Squiddy Guest

    I suppose this is normally where the mod would jump in and say "Okay guys, that's enough bickering.." Well, I like to solve issues, not sweep them under the carpet.

    The way I see it is that he's asking about a technique to load a standard version and a retina version independently of each other. Now, this is a real thing, but it's not any type of special/advanced technology. it is, as Levi says, just a very high resolution. That's fine, but personally I find it entirely reasonable to ask the question in such a way, retina displays, however much of a gimmick do exist in some form.

    If I'm designing a website for standard use, 800x600 - 1440x900 ish, then that's going to look ridiculous on a 2880×1800 "retina" display, if you can't understand that then you are clearly not a web developer. So I don't agree that you can simply design a one size fits all site, unless you've made it entirely liquid and scalable.

    The OP wants to know of a technique that will allow him to enable the decision of which image to use before it has loaded both images, which subsequently increases load times. Is this a question that either of you can answer?

    In terms of the accusation against Levi, well, I like to imagine Levi as a grumpy nurse with a bad bed-side manner. You do what you do well Levi, but it wouldn't kill you to be a little nicer or more supportive about how you go about it.
     
  10. Levi

    Levi Moderator Staff Member

    As I said earlier, the op is a web designer, I felt there wasn't any need to cover standard techniques for working on larger sizes unless he/she needed that info. People have been designing higher res sites for quite a while now and have likely covered that in their working environment at some stage. The op also stated he had written a script, which I didn't have access to, so I couldn't exactly say do such and such to fix it could I...

    I'll stand by my view that treating websites for 'retina' displays differently to a higher res screen is making a mountain out of a mole hill, it's a waste of time as it's exactly the same thing, just marketed differently. Hell I could have gone into the fact that a 1080p tv is technically a retina display....but we don't call it one do we, it's HDTV.

    [edit]I never said anything about designing for one size... I said to design like you would for a larger resolution, which to my understanding would require multiple resolutions of images/different css files etc to cater for both smaller and larger resolutions. You can't really design for a retina display as technically the resolution changes the further away you get from the screen, hence why apple has 3+ devices with different ppi sizes all marketed as retina displays[edit]

    The op didn't come back for any further clarification etc and he/she has been on the forum since the post so either I helped with my comment or the op has already solved the issue.

    Glen came onto the site and instead of actually trying to help the op decided that he wanted to make a personal rant aimed at me.

    Glen has had an issue with me since he put up his business site for review and I went and said, quite rightly, that it was wrong to do it the way he was doing it. I wasn't the only one but he singled me out then, I can link to the thread if you want or you could just do a search for glenwheeler.co.uk.

    As to my posting style on the forum... well I'm sorry it's not all lovey dovey, that's not me anyways, but the simple fact is that we give our time freely to this forum and to put it simply, the nuances of the english language can be lost when it's typed out compared with being spoken.

    I have never made a personal attack on someone even if I don't like them on the forum (pretty sure of this but I'm not going to hunt through 3600+ posts just to be certain), I've taken the micky out of Tim and his mac obsession :p, but he's done the same to me over windows and it's basically banter and he knows this.

    I'm also not going to change, if I don't like something I'm going to say that.... there's no point saying something is good when it's not.

    I'm sure I'm not the only one who doesn't have hours per day where they can check to make sure their posts are of the 'right tone' for EVERYONE.
     
  11. Squiddy

    Squiddy Guest

    I don't think he was asking for you to check over the script that he wrote, more just advice on a method to achieve choosing one image to load, instead of loading both at the same time then choosing. Perhaps there is an element of miscommunication surrounding this issue, ultimately we're not going to know more until the OP replies.

    I don't know about any previous disputes between yourself and glen and I don't really have the inclination to investigate such a matter, however, if we could keep things civil that would be great. One thing I do know Levi, is that this isn't the first time this issue has been raised. I've seen it multiple times and even raised this issue with you myself a while back. If there is no problem here, why does the same issue keep being raised by different people?

    It's not about being lovey dovey, or using the right tone. It's about talking to other people in a respectful manner. Whether or not you intend to (I don't personally believe that you do to be honest) sound slightly patronising or rude (and I do vaguely remember a number of situations where this has been the case) sometimes you can come across in this manner.

    And yes, we do give our time freely, but that's not an acceptable reason to lower our standards. I wouldn't offer to go shopping for an disabled person, return with half of the requested items then tell them where to go when they (rightly) complain.

    If we want this community to grow and become more successful then we all need to ensure that we are communicating effectively in a polite and professional manner. Otherwise we run the risk of people feeling offended, belittled or simply too embarrassed to pick this forum over all of the many others available. We've got to think about the bigger picture here.
     
  12. Levi

    Levi Moderator Staff Member

    First off I'd like to state I have no issue with the OP, I answered in a way I thought was applicable to the issue at hand. I haven't been told the response was wrong by the OP so from my perspective it was fine. Glen is the one with the issue (with ME).

    As to why the issue has been raised...probably because a lot of people take it personally when you critique their work negatively.... I'm not going to say something is good just to make them feel good. If the work is bad then the work is bad.... hell if you think my critiques are bad on here you haven't seen anything, they're nothing compared to what MY OWN WORK goes through (I'll re-render something if it isn't pixel perfect or the colour of a texture isn't quite right for example). That's the only area where I've lowered my standards, I'm not as harsh on other people's work.

    As far as I can tell every person who has had an issue with me (excluding you pre mod days - iirc we had the same discussion with me giving the same responses then) in the past has been because I've said I don't like something they have done... I'm not allowed my opinion in their view and Glen is the same, just look at the thread I mentioned, Berry and a few others had the same view as me but I was singled out by Glen.

    Including Glen, I can only think of three people who have had major issue with me and they all pretty much stemmed from a thread involving their CAR or what they've done to it. And I know what people in the car modding world can be like, not all of them can take a negative opinion well when it comes to their 'baby'. I've been there but I didn't care what other's thought, that was their right to an opinion...

    You know what the younger generations are like, they don't always take negativity well because when you're in school you're not ALLOWED to say the work is rubbish even if it is.

    Also as I said before, written text can not get the nuances of the English language. A subtle difference in tone in a word (for example 'hello') can make it go from sarcastic to polite for example, this forum doesn't allow for that subtlety.

    Maybe it's down to me having a slightly more diverse range of interests, I'm not just limited to 'western' things. We all have different likes and dislikes and if your likes are limited to more generic things like cars, sports and going down the pub/club, a popular thing it would seem for the current teen and 20-30, generations, then you're not going to have the same opinions as someone who is also into say for example gothic/japanese/asian cultures, politics (boring in my view), literature/arts because their view points will be completely different. Hell age and experience can also have a huge difference in opinions too, I know my views have changed since I was 20 and I'm not the only one, most people, especially males, are still pretty immature at that age.

    As to your opinion of my posts being patronising or rude then I disagree, but that's your opinion that you're entitled to. I don't critique the person, I critique the work, if people have an issue with me having a (negative) opinion on their work then to put it frankly they're in the wrong line of work as clients can be a lot worse than I am.

    And I never seem to get any complaints when I'm saying positive things about the work in exactly the same tones as the negative ones...funny that :rolleyes:

    Squiddy, I do keep my posts civil (I believe I haven't even used a swear word on this forum), but I will defend myself if someone wants to try and make a personal attack at me. I'd do this to their face if they were in front of me and I'll do it on a forum just the same.
     
  13. Sunburn

    Sunburn Active Member

    As the original post by the op was Posted 4 Weeks Ago and that the thread has gone off topic I'm locking it.
     
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