Ok so I got round some of the initial teething problems but being clueless im still running into problems. Current progress: Horizontal menu the line under each description, above "back" is a border applied to just the top, its in its own div but how could I nudge it up so its against the content box or something like 3px away... I haven't set a padding/margin for elements in an UL is that what I need to do? I even tried using an image but its still got the same padding. Also when I tried to make my navigation images into hyperlinks it went all screwy, how would I define those anyway? #backto.A:hover - is that even correct?? lastly.... whats causing the vertical scrollbar?