Frameworks (Harry!!)

The CSS framework idea is definitely something I want to explore, there are quite a few out there now and I haven't settled on one yet. When it comes to design and coding I'm completely self taught and it's only recently that I've been studying and using grids for layout. The frameworks sort out (or appear to) many of the layout problems beforehand, leaving me to concentrate on other stuff.

One slightly worrying thing with them is that they seem a little bloated?

Mark
 
Yeah there can be a lot of stuff in them that you won't actually use. I don't actually use frameworks (even though I made one) cos with CSS being my speciality it takes less time to rewrite what I need from the ground up that sort through/change what I do/don't need in a prewritten set of styles. The bloat is one of the biggest arguments against actually, which I forgot to mention.
 
Harry said:
As habit, yeah. Dead easy. The 62.5% on the body makes it a simple x/10 for ems so there's no reason not to once you get into the habit.
Click to expand...
Hi Harry,

Sorry im tired and havent got my CSS head on correctly if im missing something obvious but I know you set the 62.5% on the font size, how does that relate to DIV sizes? ie. 94em on the wrapper.
 
If you don't apply any CSS to a page 1em = 16px (because the default font-size = 16px). By this reckoning, 10em = 160px.

By making the default font-size 10px (16 x 62.5% = 10) then one em becomes 10px. So instead of writing width:940px; you can just write width:94em;. Hope that made sense?
 
I understand about the EM conversion etc already, but what i mean it its funny how by setting the "font" to 62.5% that it then applies to div widths etc and not only font related classes.

Hope that makes more sense, more curiosity really I guess.

Brett
 
Ooooh, I getcha. Yeah I'm not entirely sure why font-size effects non text-module elements. Does seem an odd thing.
 
Because you tell it to comply with the font size (specified by em)... or am I not getting the issue ?
 
That's what I thought at first Onartis, but the weird thing is that font-size affects divs. You'd only expect font-size to affect, well, fonts.
 
I also read that recently, where if you define te percentage in the body, you ocan then make div's width in em's... as pre-explained by Harry.
I'm still learning the basics in this theory though... it went with the whole css tables (display: table, table-cell) theory.
 
I have used several frameworks and what nots, and typically like harry often find myself in a situation where its quicker to start my css from scratch however, for quick development work frameworks are very useful in the time saved, its just having the knowledge to remove what you don't use before the project goes live.

As for Em's .... for me personally the main reasoning before for em based typography/layout was for the ability to scale up your font sizes proportionally to that of the text size selected in the browser and or for fluid width web-projects, however, as the majority of modern day browsers now zoom the page rather than the text size by default, greater "general" control can be achieved now using px (pixel size measurements) inmho.

px over em has always been a confusing thing for new web developers/designers.
that said, I can appreciate great typography, and do encourage people to give both methods a go to see which one feels right for them.
 
I'm sure I read another good reason to em's was that if a screen reader were to visit the page, it itself could enlarge the text much better than it can with px?
Whether this has been tested to confirm the difference between px and/or pixels or any other factor for that matter, I am unsure
 
Why would a screen reader enlarge the text? Doesn't a screen reader work with your code?
 
No I believe screen readers aid those with bad eyesight - if I recall rightly we had a member of staff at the Rev, who needed to use one in order to answer calls... everything on her screen was huugggeeeee, Im talking

BIGGER THAN THIS

so I think they need to be able to scale the text as Harry stated, as well as the layout. I think in IE6 the layout might scale but the text will stay the same.
 
So what does it have to do with a screen reader? I can make my text bigger and I don't have one :p
 
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