Codes and Design

Heyy, i have already been using the W3schools site and its been useful with the 'Try it Yourself' sections.

I have been using dreamweaver code vie only to try and adapt to tags etc and only checking live view etc to see if what idid actually worked.

I have been looking at studying college/university etc just a full time job gets in the way of things.

There will be a solution though:)

Sam
 
I learned how to write HTML and CSS in 4 months - in my spare time - using W3schools and some other stuff around the internet. You don't need a course to learn something this simple. Of course there will be specialists who know more than you, however quite a lot of the time they're self taught too.
 
I've never gone to college to learn any code and have learnt all I know from books but I suppose it depends on you and how you learn as a person. Some things work for some people where as other people find other ways easier to take it in. I'm defo a book guy rather than a college/uni guy but that's not to say it's right for you.

When I also went for my interview as a web development project manager the fact I was self taught, and I knew what I was on about the two kinda have to go together to be honest, to them was a major plus. They where both college/uni trained but from their passed experience the people who taught themselves knew more/got the job done to a better standard than those who weren't, apparently. Never underestimate the need to prove your self, IMO only keeps your knowledge in this field fresh which it needs to be regardless of how you learn.

But its up to you.
If you go the self taught route include things that the Uni's/college's either briefly or don't touch on at all, web security and coding for people with disabilities being 2 of the big ones as that will set you above the rest by far TBH.

I would also say if you go the self taught way look to specialize in 1 server language, PHP is pretty popular or ASP to start off with. Again going on the principle that if you dedicate your time to one language you will know it better than someone who went to uni and learnt several in the same time. PHP or ASP are the main ones going for Jobs when I've been looking.

But regardless you should read:
Head First HTML with CSS & XHTML: Amazon.co.uk: Elisabeth Robson, Eric T Freeman: Books

As its just not another coding book.

First book I used and by far the most creative way to learn any subject, coding or not. The book claims to follow a way that your brian takes it in rather than just the normal text, read, repeat until it goes in and I have to say that it does work, well for me anyway. Must have picked it up about 1/3 faster than any book since, regardless of if they where geared up to coding.

It covers more than the basics and will get you writing good CSS and table-less layouts in a very short time.

I would say about the guide, not picking on you Duncan just my opinion, that hang around specific forums regularly, such as DF and you tend to be the guide for you, or again chose a specific forum and ask a is this right thread?, submit work in the critique section and take all the feedback constructively not well I don't believe that so it's not true attitude. Regardless if you are uni trained or not IMO you need a guide all the time and you can't just say right learnt it what's next.

My attitude in any area is you have to look at, and understand you have, flaws in your work/coding, I still do as getting complacent is a flaw in it's self. Then when someone comes along and says don't like this because of X Y and Z when you show it to experienced members of that area, be it on a forum or whatever, say right cool thanks for the feedback and learn from it, learn why it's flawed and why its better to do it the way they show you.

That way you can only better your work. I know I have taken in so much and learnt where I was going wrong and as a result improved my work, a lot from reading DF's posts.

Had a meeting 2 weeks back, that is a prime example, and I took in advice that Levi_G, member/layabout on here, lol, gave me, 5 maybe 6 weeks back and used it in the meeting as he taught me something new then. Again going with the whole you need a guide all the time way of thinking. But never think you can't better your self that's perfect, as your flawed if you do. :)

Just my 2 pence. :)
Jaz
 
Jazajay said:
Had a meeting 2 weeks back, that is a prime example, and I took in advice that Levi_G, member/layabout on here, lol, gave me, 5 maybe 6 weeks back and used it in the meeting as he taught me something new then. Again going with the whole you need a guide all the time way of thinking. But never think you can't better your self that's perfect, as your flawed if you do. :)
Jaz
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Blimey, that was short for you Jaz :p

Personally I like to refer to myself as a professional layabout but I'll let you off in this instance :p

In this example I was in a surprisingly energetic mood on that particular day and was able to give Jaz a different perspective (he's a coder primarily, I'm more image orientated) and things I picked up on weren't immediately apparent to him but once pointed out he could see what I noticed. It has worked the other way as well when I was learning some php, Jaz could see what I couldn't but after it was pointed out I know what to look for etc.

Before people start thinking I'm heavily into web design/code, I'm not, I know how to do the main simple stuff (ie css, html, basic php and using javascript) but when it comes to backend stuff people like Jaz/Harry (and anyone I've forgotten) know a hell of a lot more than me and often as not sounds like they're speaking a foreign language when they go off on one of their discussion :up:

As to my html/css, basically I started out using wysiwyg (golive) which basically set up everything for me and did really bad code, I now go in and improve all the code so it's nice and neat and manually add in any css3 stuff but it's from playing and seeing what works, what doesn't and if I get stuck asking for help on here etc

Simple fact is that in web design/coding (and pretty much any other field) you will always be learning new stuff, either a better way to do something or a new technique which you didn't know of.
 
and here's some point of view that's really something from AIGA (not an endorsement of course or is?)

Very interesting read! Especially those comments ;)
 
I feel a debate coming on, I don't like them. :D

I'll get out the way that I respect your view point now, as I honestly do an it'll save me writing it at the end.

But in your first link, I will by pass the pure Google reference and not even bother pointing out what's wrong with that, and yes Renniks I still get paid millions, lol.
However, there are others who feel it is more prudent to have a certificate to prove they are capable to companies they are applying to.
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You can also get qualified out side of a formal university for example getting the The PHP Developer Certificate, or the Project Management Professional (PMP) certificate.

To be able to even qualify for the PMP you require either a high school qualification and 5 years project management experience and 7,500 hours directing projects or a 4 year degree with 3 years project management experience and 4,500 hours directing projects.

The point is I would still rather get that qualification, in my own time, as you need the experience regardless of if you have a degree of not to even be eligible for it. Now if you have been doing the role for 3 or 5 years is it even worth it? Time served all ready says you can do the job, so some would argue it isn't.

Got to admit though love this:
The self-taught are a varied bunch of ragtag amateurs, fakers, enthusiasts, wackos, quacks, thieves, simpletons, liars, rubes, chuckleheads, delusionaries, hobbyists, and geniuses
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Personally I'm torn between if I'm the Regtag amateur, faker or delusionaries TBH. Would say Faker but I prefer the ring to delusionaries so.....

On top of that the guy who wrote the second article, comes across as educated by how it is written, really needs to look into usability as that article should be cut up into more manageable sections, bolded for skim readers, separated via headings etc....etc.... But kinda proves the point that formal education in this field really means jack TBH.

But I have to agree with this from the first link:
There is no right or wrong method of learning Web Design, what you need to figure out is which method suits you best so that you can make the most of it
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As long as you learn it its all down to what you find easier to do, your self or formal education.
Regardless of how it is taught you still need to keep up to date, so in my eyes self taught is the only way to go, but thats not to say I'm right. :)

Jaz
 
To sort of back up Jaz here, I'm pretty sure Harry mentioned on here that he applied to do a course at uni on web development and then found out they were using his site as a reference, suffice to say not everyone needs to do a course to be good at what they do.

You can also look at it the other way, I know plenty of people with qualifications in design and they're not very good, hell my BTEC course at college (I went onto uni) wouldn't let you fail no matter how hard you tried lol
 
I think the main benefit from studying full time for anything, is just that, it's full time for studying...

Not trying to learn something aswell as a job or looking for a job or any other distractions, ability to spend 8 hours a day 7 days a week easily just learning :)

I'm glad I'm in Uni, I regret that I hadn't realised what I wanted to do before Uni and now my degree will be largely useless... (Still a Mechanical Engineering Degree from Cardiff Uni isn't the worst thing in the world ;) ) But It might mean that I will do Open university courses in HCI or cognitive psychology (or a mix match of both if possible)

But I think I've just gone off on a major tangent
 
O yeah I did try to do one of those at home web design courses when I first got interested, claimed to teach me everything from servers to coding. Cost me £4,500 at the time and taught me to take into account Netscsape Navigator, didn't even mention Firefox, 6 months to a year later, during that time I just couldn't focus and took hardly anything in/hardly even looked at it.

Netscape Navigator went off the scene when I phoned up in one of my resurgent attempts to try to get to grips with it I said hold on Netscape Navigator is no longer operational and they told me i was wrong and that they had just redone the coarse to match the latest trends. On top of that the new material didn't even cover Firefox so mmm.....

When I bought the head first book it took me 4 or 5 weeks to get through it and I knew more for a much cheaper price than £4,500. That CIW coarse, I think, also taught you to code in tables when CSS was the way forward as well.
 
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