Hopelessly lost & in need of understanding: Basic Animation

gillsimo

New Member
Hi...I know precisely nothing about animating, or anything graphics related....I struggle to use M/S Paint beyong the most basic level.
But I desperately need an animation...one that I'd assumed to be very basic/simple to produce.
As I clearly require the services of another to produce it then I have, several times now, attempted to commission someone via a few of these `employ an expert` websites...but
....these places list professionals from every area of graphics, there are it seems a hundred and one professionals specialising in this and that....and I haven't a clue as to which this or that i actually need to approach.
That aside I have offered/explained my requirements & a good many have replied with offers to assist.....but none thus far, some 60 in total, have grasped at all that which I'm requiring despite all insisting that they fully understand.
Three almost seemed to grasp it but £475 later proved that they didn't in the slightest!
I'd really appreciate it therefore if someone could simply name me the graphics professional/branch/dept I need to approach for the following.....and, if possible, I'd also like to know if you yourselves have problems understanding the requirements....perhaps I'm particularly bad at spelling them out?
Capture.JPG
I wish to set this tetrahedral of four spheres into a motion. As it's a looping motion then I require just one loop that can then be set to repeat.
The motion is as follows......for the tetra to turn on its centre in one plane, vertically....as viewed then that would be the two vertical reds moving vetically up/around or the reverse, down/around....the horizontal blues turning with them. But...at one and the same time & to the same degree the tetra has to turn on its centre in the horizontal plane...as viewed then, the two blues moving left/around, or right/around...the vertical reds turning with them.
I require the resultant motion from these two seperate motions...which should be a looped spiralling of the whole tetra on its centre point.

As I said...a simple enough requirement I would have thought...but what do I know here bar nothing?

Many thanks/Gill
 

Levi

Moderator
Staff member
I 'think' I know what you want but I'm not 100% sure (and if it what I think it is, it's a lot harder than you think it is to do).... and I think the image might be part of the issue because in 3D space the red sphere would be closer to the viewer than the blue sphere but what you're describing sounds like they're at the same distance from the viewer.

Can you put up a side view so I can see it with the blue being the focus because that would make life easier for me at least.
 

Wardy

Well-Known Member
As you've managed to show us the starting point in 2D, can you not just show us, however roughly, the sequence in 3D too, maybe with the addition of direction arrows too etc?
 

scotty

Moderator
Staff member
I must admit that I'm finding it quite confusing.

I think you'd be better doing as Wardy says and draw a simple storyboard as that's what they're for.
 

fisicx

Active Member
Can’t be done. The physics of the dual axis motion are incompatible.

Get 4 tennis balls and try to do it in real life. It’s just not possible with a fixed origin. A floating origin in space would work but then the animation would move out of the frame of reference.
 

fisicx

Active Member
The red spheres rotate about the origin on the y-z plane
The blue spheres rotate about the origin on the x-z plane

Because the z plane is common to both you will always get continual interference (red trying to be in the same place as blue).

The only way this can work is changing the orientation of the planes as they rotate. But then they won't animate the way @gillsimo wants.

An alternative is for the red spheres to split (one goes up and the other down) until they meet at the back and reverse direction. At the same time the blue spheres split and do similar. But this won't be a loop, it will just be a reciprocating motion and form a cruciform after 90 degrees of motion. In other words, they will only be a tetrahedron when they touch.
 

Levi

Moderator
Staff member
The red spheres rotate about the origin on the y-z plane
The blue spheres rotate about the origin on the x-z plane

Because the z plane is common to both you will always get continual interference (red trying to be in the same place as blue).

The only way this can work is changing the orientation of the planes as they rotate. But then they won't animate the way @gillsimo wants.

An alternative is for the red spheres to split (one goes up and the other down) until they meet at the back and reverse direction. At the same time the blue spheres split and do similar. But this won't be a loop, it will just be a reciprocating motion and form a cruciform after 90 degrees of motion. In other words, they will only be a tetrahedron when they touch.
I don't think you're fully getting what they want but then to be fair that is part of the issue they're raising...

If I'm understanding what they want to do accurately (and I think I am, until they reply) then it is possible to do, it's a pain in the ass to do, but it is possible (and I should know if something '3D' is possible seeing as 3D design is my area of expertise after all). I think it's about self sustaining energy by using perpetual/gyro/centripetal motions to sustain it's energy, which if it did work would only work in a frictionless environment.
 

gillsimo

New Member
Thank you's all so much for offering your thoughts.
Haven't a clue as to most of it but it's made it clear that my `simple` requirements are indeed no such thing...enlightening ta.
Please...what is a storyboard?
This in particular intrigues...."Can’t be done. The physics of the dual axis motion are incompatible. Get 4 tennis balls and try to do it in real life. It’s just not possible with a fixed origin."
Again, no idea as to the term `fixed origin` but I've spent too many an hour over too many a year now fiddling with four ping-pong balls & although it takes some amount of practice it's always appeared entirely possible? Possible that is to make the very first moves....wrists can't twist & arms get in the way to be able to continue any further...hence my need for a computer to do what a human can't in this instance.
If one turns a tetra, or anything else for that matter, in one plane and another plane at 90 degrees to it, simultaniously, then it stands to reason, I think, that the tetra will head off at 45 degree...'cept that the 45 degree here is being referenced to a three dimensions that are themselves constantly changing throughout....ummm, that'll come across as double dutch no doubt....does it help any to suggest that the resultant trajectory spirals through a loop, that trajectory constanty changing in all three dimensions throughout its looping....nah, probably not!
Is it this constantly changing reference point that can't be handled by any kind of graphics software? I know...a dumb question when I'm apparently unable to adequately explain a constantly changing reference point anyways!
From my numpty stand point that is somewhat suprising if so...I can only imagine that NASA run grahics software capable of stuff way beyond that?
Whatever...I'll attempt a story thingy if/when somebody is good enough to tell me what it is exactly.
'Til then, thanks again for your assistance.

Edit: Levi, just noticed your recent reply. I'm intrigued...very. I can only assume that you do indeed have a good take on this because the whole reason for my needing this animation stems from my 20+ year investigation into Energy/Perpetual Motion, something that I'm always keen to hide for fear of being dismissed a crank.
Most odd that here you've kinda done it for me & that you've introduced your thoughts regarding Physics in reply to a graphics enquiry.
Please feel free to expand your thoughts as to `what you think it's about`....I'd really like to hear please.
 

Wardy

Well-Known Member
A storyboard is simply a series of drawings that set out the 'story' or sequence of a video or film.

I meant to say 'the sequence in 2D too' in my earlier post.
 

Levi

Moderator
Staff member
Edit: Levi, just noticed your recent reply. I'm intrigued...very. I can only assume that you do indeed have a good take on this because the whole reason for my needing this animation stems from my 20+ year investigation into Energy/Perpetual Motion, something that I'm always keen to hide for fear of being dismissed a crank.
Most odd that here you've kinda done it for me & that you've introduced your thoughts regarding Physics in reply to a graphics enquiry.
Please feel free to expand your thoughts as to `what you think it's about`....I'd really like to hear please.
My background is product design (bsc) not graphic design, so I have more of an understanding of physics than most of the others on here because I also need to deal with engineering and mechanical type things. I've also got a rudimentary understanding of utilising centripetal motion to enhance energy on impact from my final project at uni. In all honesty it came down to three options, perpetual energy, some atom level motion or multi planetary object in astrophysics.... all basically the same concepts though in terms of the animation side of things.

If my understanding of the idea is correct you would basically end up with a 'spiralling' effect when viewed from a single point due to the 2 axis rotation, now I'd also assume each ball is also rotating (each ball of the same colour would be in opposite directions) along a pivot point where an 'arm' between each coloured ball would connect to each ball. In a way very similar to the effect you get when viewing one of those human gyro things. Like I say though a pain in the arse to animate but doable.

Conceptually, I'm guessing the idea is that gravity is used to keep the rotation going and the dual rotation is to make the loss of energy on the 'up' journey lower or equal to the energy gained from gravity pulling it on 'down' motion which in turn causes the perpetual energy. The issue you'd have is transferring this 3D motion into a 2D motion where the energy can be harnessed, but then this would also bring up the issues of energy conversion etc, at it's core you'd actually need to produce more energy than needed for 'free energy' if you want it to do anything more than look like a pretty ornament.
 

gillsimo

New Member
I must apologise, to Levi in particular, for my apparent lack of response.....unfortunately ill health dictates & not ignorance.
My mind is very keen to get back on the case but not my body at the mo...but soon hopefully.
Thanks again for the interest & observations thus far
Gill
 
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