Design and print help needed

Saira01

New Member
Hi Experts

I'm a freelancer graphic designer and always have work remotely providing the print ready files and sometimes the source files to the clients. I haven't worked in local and so have no idea how the whole process works.

A local (uk) new client has approached me and asked me to create a B4 Zfold menu design his new restaurant. He also wants me to print for his like 30k prints. Now consider me blank as I have no idea
1. how to charge for the design + print ?
2. To get 30k prints how to approach any printing services like shall I tell them its for my client etc.
3. Do I get something to get that printed too.

Sorry I am so confused and do not want to loose the client and couldn't find any guide like how does this work.

Please guide.

Thank you
 

hankscorpio

Moderator
Staff member
Amazing you have any clients at all.
Pure basics.

B4 will have to done on a litho press.
Any litho printer's would be capable.

Design costs?
Postage stamp, a5, a4, a1 B4, b1 , building wrap, pull up stand, etc

Same price.
It's just printed at different sizes.


Print, doing it yourself? Cost of running machine.

Outsourcing.. Get a price and add percentage like 10 or 20.
 

Levi

Moderator
Staff member
Yeah as above, this is kind of running a design business 101....it's pure basics and something you should know how to do before even considering taking on clients.
 

Saira01

New Member
Amazing you have any clients at all.
Pure basics.

B4 will have to done on a litho press.
Any litho printer's would be capable.

Design costs?
Postage stamp, a5, a4, a1 B4, b1 , building wrap, pull up stand, etc

Same price.
It's just printed at different sizes.


Print, doing it yourself? Cost of running machine.

Outsourcing.. Get a price and add percentage like 10 or 20.
Thank you so much for your reply.

I have something in my mind to charge for design. But shall I just tell him the design price plus exact printing press cost?

One of the local designers said to me if he's looking to have only small quantity prints then he might not pay for the design but just only printing.

Let's say design cost is £100
The client needs 30k printed leaflets.
So how shall I tell him .
 

Saira01

New Member
Amazing you have any clients at all.
Pure basics.

B4 will have to done on a litho press.
Any litho printer's would be capable.

Design costs?
Postage stamp, a5, a4, a1 B4, b1 , building wrap, pull up stand, etc

Same price.
It's just printed at different sizes.


Print, doing it yourself? Cost of running machine.

Outsourcing.. Get a price and add percentage like 10 or 20.
No I will find some one in local to do it. Hardly get a4 paper prints at home

Percentage for what?
 

Levi

Moderator
Staff member
Let's say design cost is £100
The client needs 30k printed leaflets.
So how shall I tell him .
I would hope the design isn't £100.....

You can tell them either a 'full price' of everything including the printing or you can quote them with a breakdown of where the costs are.

Seriously though, you should know how to do all this before even considering taking on clients, the questions you're asking are is the absolute fundamentals of running a business.
 

sprout

Active Member
Honestly, what would be more useful to you at this stage (apart from a decent education, if you haven’t been through a degree yet) is for you to perhaps pass it on to an experienced local design studio with the proviso that they mentor you through the process. You will then get an idea of what is involved and what costs should be.

I have no idea about your capabilities or talents as a designer, but your technical knowledge, as others have said, appears, on the face of it, as though you shouldn’t really even be taking on clients at this point. If you haven’t been to university, do that first. If you have, it sounds like you need a good few years working in a studio to learn the ropes. An education and four to five years of experience is the absolute minimum you need before taking on paying clients, otherwise you would almost be taking money from them under false pretences. At best, you’d be doing them (and yourself) a disservice.

Another thing that strikes me, is why any restaurant needs 30,000 menus – unless of course it is for a takeaway. In which case, although it may contain their menu, it usually needs to do an additional job and differentiate that particular takeaway restaurant. It becomes as much a sales leaflet as a straight menu. You need to be clear with them what they want it to do. Determining what the problem that they need solving is, is part of you job as a designer. Hint; clients often don’t know themselves.

To be able to do this and deliver an effective solution that will achieve their goals, should cost considerably more than £100 – because the knowledge and experience to be able to is worth more than £100.

Apologies if this comes across as harsh, or I have mis read your level of experience, but if I haven’t and you are as inexperienced as your original post comes across, I have to be honest with you.

Have you had any formal education and / or studio experience?
 

hankscorpio

Moderator
Staff member
Get a print quote from the printer.

You're handling the files and the hand off to the printer - so you need to get paid for your role.

Printer Costs - never reveal this to your clients.

So your printer comes back with something like 30k units will cost £3600

******My spreadsheet looks like this - NEVER seen by client******

Design ..... Per Hour .... Markup 10%...

8 hours.... £75 ............... £60................
Total £660

Print QTY .... £Per Unit.... Markup 20% ....

30,000.......... £0.12 ......... £720
Total £4320

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

****What goes to client****
.........................................................................(exc VAT)
Service .......................................................... Total Cost

Design ........................................................... £660

Print.......................QTY............Per Unit........ Total Cost
A4 Silk 1 sided......30,000.........£0.144............£4320

Total ................................................................£4980
(Including VAT @9.5% .....................................£5453.10)

Additional Costs
Delivery ------------------------------------------ £20
Collection ---------------------------------------- free
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


It may seem unfair that I charge an extra 10% on the Design
But this covers admin costs/phone calls/small additional things not covered in original quote.

Gotsa get paid.

I add additional to the print as I need to make money from it
It's my expertise and knowledge and I deal directly with the printers
Manage the print side, due dates, and all that boring admin stuff that goes on in the background.
Printing dockets, filing, space on the servers, backups, and all that stuff costs money.
 

Saira01

New Member
I would hope the design isn't £100.....

You can tell them either a 'full price' of everything including the printing or you can quote them with a breakdown of where the costs are.

Seriously though, you should know how to do all this before even considering taking on clients, the questions you're asking are is the absolute fundamentals of running a business.
Levi thank you for your reply. I have been working on freelance markets and have been charging the clients according to complexity of the project. I have been charging reasonable price to them per design. It is all in dollars and the price of the dollar is way much cheaper than a British pound.

I actually designed some A2 and couple other sized posters for a takeaway ( the person I know so charged him for printing only )and from there a client got in contact with me for his business.

So yes, I am totally beginner in this sense that I have not worked with anyone or any studio to know all. And neither could find any practical guide. My questions are very basic. I totally agree and to run a business I should know all ABC's.

I did start going to someone to learn how this all work but I realised I was not learning anything as the person was just keeping himself to himself.

So after searching answers to my questions, signed up here :)
 

Saira01

New Member
Honestly, what would be more useful to you at this stage (apart from a decent education, if you haven’t been through a degree yet) is for you to perhaps pass it on to an experienced local design studio with the proviso that they mentor you through the process. You will then get an idea of what is involved and what costs should be.

I have no idea about your capabilities or talents as a designer, but your technical knowledge, as others have said, appears, on the face of it, as though you shouldn’t really even be taking on clients at this point. If you haven’t been to university, do that first. If you have, it sounds like you need a good few years working in a studio to learn the ropes. An education and four to five years of experience is the absolute minimum you need before taking on paying clients, otherwise you would almost be taking money from them under false pretences. At best, you’d be doing them (and yourself) a disservice.

Another thing that strikes me, is why any restaurant needs 30,000 menus – unless of course it is for a takeaway. In which case, although it may contain their menu, it usually needs to do an additional job and differentiate that particular takeaway restaurant. It becomes as much a sales leaflet as a straight menu. You need to be clear with them what they want it to do. Determining what the problem that they need solving is, is part of you job as a designer. Hint; clients often don’t know themselves.

To be able to do this and deliver an effective solution that will achieve their goals, should cost considerably more than £100 – because the knowledge and experience to be able to is worth more than £100.

Apologies if this comes across as harsh, or I have mis read your level of experience, but if I haven’t and you are as inexperienced as your original post comes across, I have to be honest with you.

Have you had any formal education and / or studio experience?
Thank you so much for your response.

I have been working as a freelance graphic designer for many years so basically it's just design and deliver the file and get paid.

Besides this I have worked for some people I already knew and as I had no previous experience to work locally I never charged them. So just sent the file to the cheapest printing services, got that printed and handed over them. They wanted to pay me for design but I never took a penny . It was just the printing price.

After seeing a poster from there one of the clients there asked about me and approached me for the enquiry I am trying to get solved here . As I love to create and like to learn and grow I started making enquiries. Could not find any practical guide so landed on this forum.

In my freelance career I never charge any client anything extra. I just can't be unfair with anyone in my dealings. I only charge for my hardwork and even I don't charge a penny if someone is not happy and satisfied. My clients keep coming back to me. But I know I still shall be charging when I hv worked so hard but some clients are unpredictable and no one wants a bad review on their profile.

I did went to a person for a couple days. The purpose to do this was to learn and get a studio like experience. But I found it very limited as I was not getting any information and was not learning anything. It was like going to a library. Where each person sits and does his work silently.

No , I didn't felt it harsh at all. I am listening to all of you whoever is posting on my thread. My purpose to be here is learn and grow , take any feedback and think how to improve myself. I am actually thank full that you took time to tell me something I do not know.

As worked at freelance markets, have been charging in dollars which when converted to the UK pound get very less money. True, I never been to a studio neither could afford high fees for graphic design course. My masters degree is not in design. And I started working for myself and friends when I first got to know Corel and then Adobe . Did many projects for free so have no idea how the prices and things are working.

Then I just joined freelance sites that's all. I keep learning things I do not know. You might say I am a self taught graphic designer and a powerpoint expert.When I couldn't afford high fees for graphic design I started learning from free courses and You tube tutorials.

I tried to find the answers could not so posted here. I am open to all suggestions and feedback
 

Saira01

New Member
Get a print quote from the printer.

You're handling the files and the hand off to the printer - so you need to get paid for your role.

Printer Costs - never reveal this to your clients.

So your printer comes back with something like 30k units will cost £3600

******My spreadsheet looks like this - NEVER seen by client******

Design ..... Per Hour .... Markup 10%...

8 hours.... £75 ............... £60................
Total £660

Print QTY .... £Per Unit.... Markup 20% ....

30,000.......... £0.12 ......... £720
Total £4320

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

****What goes to client****
.........................................................................(exc VAT)
Service .......................................................... Total Cost

Design ........................................................... £660

Print.......................QTY............Per Unit........ Total Cost
A4 Silk 1 sided......30,000.........£0.144............£4320

Total ................................................................£4980
(Including VAT @9.5% .....................................£5453.10)

Additional Costs
Delivery ------------------------------------------ £20
Collection ---------------------------------------- free
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


It may seem unfair that I charge an extra 10% on the Design
But this covers admin costs/phone calls/small additional things not covered in original quote.

Gotsa get paid.

I add additional to the print as I need to make money from it
It's my expertise and knowledge and I deal directly with the printers
Manage the print side, due dates, and all that boring admin stuff that goes on in the background.
Printing dockets, filing, space on the servers, backups, and all that stuff costs money.
Thank you so much

It is very helpful to look at how the price works. I was actually so confused what shall I tell the client and who shall I ask ? This does gives me an idea how shall I work. :)

Definitely you work hard and you deserve the 10% too
 

hankscorpio

Moderator
Staff member
Thank you so much

It is very helpful to look at how the price works. I was actually so confused what shall I tell the client and who shall I ask ? This does gives me an idea how shall I work. :)

Definitely you work hard and you deserve the 10% too
I made a mistake in my sums I was just typing them out loud.

But you get the jist.

Always add a bit to the overall cost to cover extraneous things.
And you make a nice profit.

When you get to know printers and work with them regularly you should be getting Trade Prices.

If the client went directly to the printer - they would be charged a lot more - as it's a one off for the print company to take on their work.
When they give a trade price - it works out better.

Client gets the job printed for cheaper.
Even with the extra markup for your bit - it still works out cheaper than if the client went directly to the printers.

So don't think you're ripping anyone off.

When a Garage sells petrol/diesel/gas - they buy it for cheaper than they sell it.

Everyone needs to make money.
 
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