Colour scheme and form critique for newbie designer's Music Producer logo

Hamed

New Member
Hey guys, first time on here so let me say that i AM NOT a graphic designer by any stretch. Im a beat maker who has a task and i need to accomplish it by graphic design. So ive learned some very basic things in order to just make a logo.

Im using GIMP (ive heard a lot of people cringe at that so bear with me) incase you're wondering.

If you want to see my inspiration for this then search: "TheBeatPlug", "Genius" & "JukeBox Juice" on youtube.

The wingdings logo was my very first logo, i thought it was pretty tounge in cheek and cool but it struggled to show up well in YT comment boxes and now that i look at it, the thing just looks off to me. so im not to concerned on the critique of that (although any would help)

The dragon logo's are my main concern, i just want to know do they look OK? Im mostly interested in the catchiness of the logo (if thats even a term used) in that i dont want it to be too detailed.

Like i said im not a graphic designer so im willing to learn anything from you guys, however basic you may think youre advice is, im sure its news to me lol.

EDIT: im aware of how pixelated the logos may be when opened (and the little artifacts), this is fine because the platforms they're used (YT, Insta, twitter, soundcloud etc) on will not show the pixelation so the logo will look smoother
 

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Wardy

Well-Known Member
It's not a very nice 'dragon', looks more like a griffon at best. Avoid the gradation.

Quite honestly, if you're not capable of copying a simple dragon head, get someone to do it cheaply or find a stock image,
it will look loads better. Just Google 'dragon head logo' or 'dragon head in circle'.
 

fisicx

Active Member
Looks like a wonky wolf with a hooked nose.

What exactly is the task you need to complete? Why are you doing this is you are not a graphic designer?
 

Hamed

New Member
@Wardy I didnt draw the dragon, its directly cropped from my countries national flag from where the dragon looks exactly like that. it's a reference to where im from because i feel thats a very important part of my music (not many people in the country make beats to my knowledge).
However i will say that the dragon was more detailed, i removed a lot of the lines in the neck and face and removed the eyes so that it was less "liney" if that makes sense. If you have any better images for inspiration then id like to see em.

@fisicx If you read my inspiration for this you would have understood that im just trying to make a logo for social media (YT, insta etc) that represents my channel. This will not go on any large prints or anything of that sort, purely digital and will be mainly displayed in a small size (as channel logo's on YT/Soundcloud and profile pictures on instgram pages are).
I'm doing this because do i really need a graphic designer for such a small task? im a young adult in university so i aint got nooo money :ROFLMAO: may as well tackle this myself and learn from people who ARE graphic designers while i have the time on summer break.
 

Levi

Moderator
Staff member
In all honesty.... you can tell you don't do design and your view that you can do it yourself is just a perfect fit for the 'my friend has a copy of photoshop so I thought they could do it for 50p' response we get from clients when they come to us asking us to fix their 'cheap' design work. There is a reason that good designers have training of some sort...

That dragon head looks nothing like any dragon I've ever seen in tv, anime, imagery, movies etc (and I've seen a lot). That 4th image with the welsh flag overlaid onto the the image is just illegible.
 

fisicx

Active Member
If you read my inspiration for this you would have understood that im just trying to make a logo for social media (YT, insta etc) that represents my channel.
I did look and can't see how this relates to you. Is your username dragon related?
I'm doing this because do i really need a graphic designer for such a small task?.
Yes. Or at the very least you need the help of someone who can do graphic design. Is there nobody at your university that can't help in exchange for a pint?

Or you could get a job stacking shelves in the local supermarket and earn enough to pay a graphic designer. Won't take you more than a week,
 

Hamed

New Member
Is this a joke? What are these sarcastic and childish responses im getting?

It seems that everything ive said has been taken the wrong way, how can i put this.

• I am a medical student, NOT a graphical designer, im on this forum simply to get input and suggestions on MY DESIGN'S (not my personality or whatever @Levi and @fisicx were refering to) from graphical designers. Because YOU have the knowledge and experience.
• I'm not after a course on graphic design, but just some of your thoughts and possible sources of info that i could read/watch to just grasp the basics.
• As a student, making music IS NOT my main project (i.e im not looking for a proffesional teir logo, something simple and effective like the logo's ive listed for inspiration).
• Think back to when you guys (who im assuming are older) were student's. Would you honestly pay what little money you have, to buy a graphic designer for a logo on a YT channel for your hobby?
• I didn't mean the comment in a malicious way, not trying to be facetious or a know-it-all just because i have program that can create designs. Obviously you guys have a place, and are irreplaceable. Im here to learn from you not downplay your years of experience.

I honestly do not understand how i should talk to you people, i've answered you're questions on why the dragon looks the way it is and asked for design suggestions, but its not what i got.

Look, i didnt want this AT ALL to become sour, if i've offended you in any way then im sorry. Can we please just start from a clean slate?

Ok, so...

@fisicx As i've cleared up now, im a medical student so there's nobody in my university branch that i can link up with. My username isnt dragon related, does it have to be? That seems cheesy to me to have a dragon username as a music producer (imagine Drake being called "Lil Owl" because his brand's logo is an owl). The dragon comes from the welsh national flag. I am welsh, therefore to symbolise this, i've cropped the dragons head from the flag. Refering back to the username, i would be much more comfotable with my current name and then a dragon logo to show that im welsh, not a dragon username and logo, it just seems unproffesional to have a dragon username (equal argument for a logo but if you feel that way also, what would you suggest i could alter the logo idea to? Wales has lots of rolling hills, sheep, its known for Rugby, and another thing associated with it are the vegetable Leek's. Are these viable logo options?)

@Levi I understand, the dragon is weird looking. But thats the exact way its shaped on the welsh national flag... if i change the form of it too much, my logo becomes meaningless in that it no longer shows that im from wales, and it just becomes a random dragon (which is not what im after, the dragon was chose not because i like dragons or anything, but because it symbolises Wales). The underlayed text is illegible in what sense, its in wingdings font so obviously its illegible to understand. but is it illegible because of the colour scheme or just the fact that it is in wingdings? For both designs, i'd be all ears on what you could suggest i should focus on working on.
 

Wardy

Well-Known Member
Wow, I never noticed the Welsh dragon on the flag was so badly designed. It doesn't get away from the fact you've copied it pretty poorly, that's why it
looks rather unprofessional for a logo. When yours is seen small it looks like it's got no teeth for starters. It's very difficult for us to describe what you can do to make it better. All I can say is there's a few simpler versions of it online,
I would check some of these out and try and trace over them a few times and work on it until it looks right. Keep it as simple as possible, don't draw every tooth separately for example, simplify them into as few shapes as possible.
 

Levi

Moderator
Staff member
Is this a joke? What are these sarcastic and childish responses im getting?

Lets put it another way seeing as you're a medical student. Would you expect one of us to be able to diagnose an issue a patient has without going through all the training or from just looking it up online? I bet your answer is no.

Design is fairly similar in that to get the best results you need to learn the basics, you haven't done any of that, you've just jumped straight in with a 'logo' and as such you end up with a design that has issues. We can't really give you advice to fix it because we wouldn't know where to start without basically saying start over.

As to the comment about paying for a YT logo, actually I would have (not that YT was around back then) because I believe in paying for something if I can't do it myself. Now it might not have been someone who does this for a living like most of the people on this forum but I could have easily sourced someone in education that I could have paid a lesser amount to, it would not have been given to someone who 'owns a copy of photoshop' etc.

You now say that dragon is from the Welsh flag... as you can tell we didn't realise (ignoring the fact it's missing the important tongue part) so unless you're in Wales I doubt anyone else is going to realise either so for most normal people it doesn't look anything like a dragon.

Honestly I also associate a daffodil with Wales more than I do a dragon. If I think of dragons I think of Saint George and the Dragon which is English, mind you I am in England.
 

fisicx

Active Member
Think back to when you guys (who im assuming are older) were student's. Would you honestly pay what little money you have, to buy a graphic designer for a logo on a YT channel for your hobby?
I wasn't ever a full time student. I got my degree with the OU. If I didn't have the money or skills to do something I'd find an alternative. In your case I wouldn't bother with a logo. Just take a selfie and use that. Nobody but you cares what you use for an avatar.

I'd never link a dragon with you being Welsh. A dragon for me connects more with Cosplay, Fantasy or Game of Thrones.
 

hankscorpio

Moderator
Staff member
No problem with hobbyiest looking for help.

I wouldn't use Gimp - I'd use Inkscape. That's also free.

You can find tutotrials here - https://www.google.ie/search?ei=4FR.....0.11.644...0i22i30k1j33i160k1.0.gUYYSGnnukg


My main issue with the dragon head is that it's choppy, the lines are not straight, which makes it look bad.

Use the Pen Tool to draw the shape, and use as few nodes (something you'll learn in the tuts) as possible to create the shape. It will be much smoother.

Or you might find a FREE vector of your country flag and take the Head of the Dragon from that
https://www.freepik.com/free-photos-vectors/national-flag


Once you have the image created in Vector, you can then size and scale to any size and export to most formats.



All in all - if you are really serious about getting something good - you can always hire one of the fine designers who hang around here - feel free to put an advert in the Market Place section - be warned, if you offer low renumeration the advert will be removed, instead let people come to you with a price for "fixing" what you started.

http://www.graphicdesignforums.co.uk/forums/tenders-services-required-forum.12/
 

Hamed

New Member
@Wardy Ok so simplify it into a more basic shape and make the teeth visible in small is what i've got from what you've said. i'll see what i can do with that.

@Levi I have no problem with starting over, dont be afraid to tell me to scrap it all to save my feelings, because this is my equvalent of a first song. Its an experiement and nobody's first of anything is going to be good.

But what i will say is: Everyone has to start somewhere, just because im not in education for this subject doesnt mean i cannot teach myself. I get it, i havent learnt the basics, i know this. What would be of tremendous value is what you could reccomend i start with as a topics for a foundation to learn, im sure you've come across a good internet based source that can help me in some way, even if you think its common knowledge.
Its very similar to me hearing someones first song and going "oh you havent mixed it right, oh the samples are too low bitrate, you havent quantized your drums at all". They probably know by ear (or in my case, sight) whats wrong but they do not know how to solve it. What would be of most value is that i tell the person what they need to learn about to create a foundation, by doing that they will better grasp what they can learn about in order to solve their own problems. But initially everyone has to ask for help.

@fisicx Thats fair enough, but i'm sure that i need a logo. Would an artist have their selfie for the logo of their brand? I understand that im not rhianna or drake but if i need a logo in the future for whatever reason, i may as well create it now. As far as the dragon comment, i understand that. I'm not trying to scream that im welsh, a lot of people actually dont know wales even exists ( sadly :confused: ) so by myself putting something welsh into my logo, it will be a subtle hint that im welsh, those who know, they know and will 'get it'. And as Levi said, this doesnt HAVE to be a dragon, if he thinks dafodil's are more welsh then ill use a daffodil etc.

@hankscorpio I've never heard of inkscape, ill give it a try. I can see the chopiness in the photo, i'll try find a vector for it and learn about how to use inkscape and see if i can recreate it with a smoother finish.
Thank's for your help, and if this does all come to a head and i give up, i will definitely give you guys a shout.
 

fisicx

Active Member
Thats fair enough, but i'm sure that i need a logo.
Many don't. Rhianna doesn't and Drake just has his signature.
Would an artist have their selfie for the logo of their brand?
Right now it's a hobby and all you seem to want is an avatar for you SM channels. Doesn't have to be a selfie, it could be a picture of anything - nobody really cares apart from you. I'm looking at a whole bunch of you tubers and very few of them have a logo.

If you really want a dragon, there are gazillions of example of google images you could use as inspiration. I just think a dragon is a bit clichéd.
 

scotty

Moderator
Staff member
Hey Hamed, welcome to GDF.

Sorry I'm a bit late to the game and I must admit I've skimmed a lot of the above.

For me, I'm slightly unsure about the use of the dragon more as a marketing perspective more than anything as you must think how the viewer sees it.
To me this kind of approach looks more at home as a gaming profile pic or even a bit metal as music goes.

Nothing wrong with being proud of being Welsh (it exists....I've seen it ;) ) but it can come across as a bit nationalistic and are you wanting to push yourself at just your home audience?
I didn't recognise it as the Welsh Dragon out of context although I've looked and now can see it is.

Also, as I've found, using older or heraldic imagery can be a little tricky when used out of context.
We tend to accept them for what they are but when you start to look at them closely and take them away from say a flag you can notice how rough they actually are.
A point in case is that I was working on some branding for a large Chinese restaurant franchise and they wanted a Chinese dragon on their crockery.
I sourced loads of traditional dragon images for reference but when I looked closely at them, almost all were rough as.

If you really wanted to go with a dragon then I'd probably look at using something that's a bit more modern and graphic personally.
Maybe something more in the style of an American sports mascot, emblem type thing?
 

Levi

Moderator
Staff member
Nothing wrong with being proud of being Welsh (it exists....I've seen it ;) ) but it can come across as a bit nationalistic and are you wanting to push yourself at just your home audience?
I didn't recognise it as the Welsh Dragon out of context although I've looked and now can see it is.

Also, as I've found, using older or heraldic imagery can be a little tricky when used out of context.
Apparently there was/is a white dragon on a red background that is an English National Flag, albeit a historical one. Some pictures I've found seem to basically be the welsh flag design recoloured so that's another thing to consider.
 

Hamed

New Member
Many don't. Rhianna doesn't and Drake just has his signature.

Right now it's a hobby and all you seem to want is an avatar for you SM channels. Doesn't have to be a selfie, it could be a picture of anything - nobody really cares apart from you. I'm looking at a whole bunch of you tubers and very few of them have a logo.

Rhinan's makeup brand Fenty, has a logo. Her brand, not herself.
As far as drake goes, he's known for OVO, not that signature on his website. Thats actually the first time ive ever seen it, i always linked his brand OVO to him.

I'm not trying to brand myself as a person, i think you're not aware of the modern music producer's way of working (which is fine, there's no reason to care if youre not one, or a musician).
But basically put, every producer nowadays has a brand of some sort linked to them. In my inspirations, lets take TheBeatPlug for an example. He makes beats, but he has a logo, his website has a certain design and colour scheme based on his logo's colour scheme, hes created a small brand around his music which helps it to be identified and sold. Nowadays every music producer has to do this, this is the new way of working, branding over the internet.

But i need to stress, obviously im not aiming to be a proffesional corporate brand, but i dont want to look like some random kid on YT. I just want a simple logo that, as my inspirations show, isnt too technical, but still has a little meaning behind it.

The signature thing isnt actually a bad idea now that i think about it.

But ive said before, i dont have a love for dragons... the welsh dragon just shows that i am welsh. To say nobody cares is nihilistic? People are proud and hold a value in where theyre from, be it a country, town, even a house you grew up in. I just happen to be proud to be welsh, not at all in a nationalistic, hate-every-other-country way, but thats just the place that i hold value in. If other people dont care then fine, but there are going to be people who do, and those people are potential customers.

@scotty Thanks for your input, so what im getting from everyone is that the dragon idea isnt viable. Which is fine, this is a learning curve and im willing to scrap ideas and create new ones for the sake of progress. I'll avoid old style images, if you find it hard to do then im going to be hopeless lol.

I do not JUST want to push myself to my home audience, but i want my home audience to recognize the logo and realise that im welsh.
I want it to show that im welsh not in a nationalistic way, but because it will be easier to get backing of people who are in my country with a logo like that.
I know theres a lot of welsh people who want other welsh musicians to do well, because they want to see someone of notoriety thats welsh in modern music (obvioulsy not talking like Drake level, even a YT video about the person will be a good start honestly). So thats my reasoning for having something welsh in the logo.

All in all, sorry for the long ass paragraphs i know it must be a pain to read all of this. What i can solidfy is that you guys are not fond of the dragon logo. Thats fine, what i need to do now is go back to the drawing board and create another logo.
Im not sure where to post them, so im going to keep posting them in this thread.
 

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Paul Murray

Ultimate Member
Ditch the software, get yourself a pen and paper and draw simple shapes and ideas no bigger than a postage stamp. When you find an idea you like, iterate on it until it is simple enough that A. it's legible at that small scale and B. you can recreate it digitally. This is the approach I take 99% of the time. If it works on paper it will work on screen.
 

Hamed

New Member
@Paul Murray Thats a very good idea that i never thought of, ill definitely do that with future designs.
@hankscorpio Thank you for the support, i've ditched the deisgn because it was hard to make it look "professional" now that i've given it time to look at it for a few weeks.

SO, i've come up with a new design, its not complex at all and really its hardly a logo in the typographic sense. But i think that this is much more easy on the eyes and it fits well into logo circles on social media and YT.
If anyone wants to critique it then thats fine, but i'm primarily posting this so that i can conclude this thread.

I'm having another problem regarding designing a cover page but that will be in another thread in another time.
 

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