Adobe to stop supporting Type 1 fonts

VMdesign

New Member
Hello collective mind
I have been ignoring the Adobe type 1 warning until today when I had a moment to read it. Is it me or are they just using it as a tool to make everyone use their licensed fonts, so that if you stop using Adobe products you also lose you entire font library, making it far less likely you will move onto competitor software? I have many type 1 fonts that I have bought over the years. This uncoupling with type 1 seems another insidious way of tying designers to Adobe's ever increasing monthly payment schedule. I want to own the software I use, there are lean times and fat times and having a large monthly bill to pay, as opposed to a piece of software that will be mine through thick and thin, is really beginning to bug me. Anyone else?
 

hankscorpio

Moderator
Staff member
. I want to own the software I use,
You never own software, your purchase a license to use software. You license it. Same with fonts.

Type 1 fonts are outdated. Are they right to end support? Their call. It's up to the Type Foundaries to supply open type fonts.

Adobe fonts was purchased from TypeKit and Adobe only have a handful of their own fonts.
Adobe only offer s portal to a slew of fonts from different type Foundaries that teamed up with Adobe. You pay Adobe, Adobe pays the Foundaries.

After all it's right to pay for what someone else created, otherwise we designers would be out of work!

Likely replace your type 1 fonts or convert them to open type.

I use software called https://www.fontlab.com/font-converter/transtype/

Nobody is forcing you to pay for the Adobe software. It's about 60 quid a month for their entire software collection.

My monthly outgoings are about 3000 a month, the 60 quid a month for Adobe is about one weeks worth of petrol.

There is other software.
Affinity Publisher is pretty decent but in my opinion not at a level of Adobe Indesign. Their Affinty Photo and Designer are apparently very good.

There's a slew of free software, Sketch, Gimp, Scribus etc all ok.

But my opinion is Adobe is the industry standard for professional designers.

And 60 quid a month is cheap. As said I put that on my car each week.
 

VMdesign

New Member
I take your point @hankscorpio about not owning software, I am referring to times when you purchased software via disks and therefore could use that software for years without upgrading and with no monthly cost, as long as you were able to output files in the way your end user needed them. This was incredibly helpful to new designers starting out, who did not have 3,000 a month at their disposal. It also meant the industry was in charge of how quickly software was innovated. If there was no uptake of the new version it just sat on the shelves until people sought it out – possibly why companies like Adobe are moving gradually to a SaaS model. The issue is that companies will always have investor pressure to constantly up-sell and sometimes this is in detriment to the industry as a whole. Again new designers are battling a tough job market, cheaper talent from other countries, rising hardware costs and so on. I am meeting people who's skills are being made obsolete before they have even got a foot on the ladder, because of the relentless software progression which is fuelled by a monthly license model. It is very easy to get into a supply and demand loop that is actually really damaging to the profession. I'm glad that £60 a month is a drop in the petrol tank for you, honestly, it's good to hear people are making hay while the pandemic is on.
 

hankscorpio

Moderator
Staff member
I didn't say it cost 3000 a month. It's just my outgoings. So 60 quid is in there it's a small.amount for me.

When I was starting out I lived at home with my parents. I know not everyone does but a lot do. My outgoings then would have been 200 a month for rent and food. But when I moved out and rented for the first time it was 800 for rent and 400 for food, so my spend per month was 1200.

Whatever your spend per month allow 60 quid and take advantage of all the software Adobe offers.

You don't gave to use Adobe fonts, but you won't be able to use Type 1 fonts, which I don't think worked on Mac (or is it Windows?). I think it was Mac don't allow Type 1 fonts and that's going back a long long time.

Why the hate on Adobe when Apple did it long ago???

Going cloud based ensures all are on the latest version, the main reason was of course the Piracy and people sharing disks,.copying them, selling them etc.

You might have bought disks, but software was still under license and people broke their EULA all the time, sharing and distributing it for their profit while the company that created the software received no return.


Drm is rife these days. Everyone is doing. Microsoft office for one.

As I said, nobody is forcing you to use it or buy it. If your personal circumstances don't allow you to afford the software then you then there are other software's with lower prices or even free and I have already given you those.

Ive have this argument a million times. People accusing Adobe of greed and stuff like that. It doesn't hold water.
 

VMdesign

New Member
Hi again
perhaps we were talking at cross purposes. I wasn't saying it cost 3,000 a month. I was saying that many don't have that income a month.
The fact other software providers are following a DRM doesn't make it right. I do actually like the convenience of being on the same versions as others, being out of sync was a real pain at times.
My point is that in my opinion Adobe seems slightly out of step with the industry right now and as someone who does use the whole Adobe suite, so possibly getting the maximum value for money, if I'm fed up about it, you can bet there are many others who feel the same.
You seem very pro Adobe I have to say. Most companies welcome customer feedback, otherwise they don't get a heads up when another provider suddenly grabs all their customers away.
 

hankscorpio

Moderator
Staff member
There are plenty who feel the same.
Adobe brought the cloud version years ago. And years ago I was angry but the more I thought about the more it made sense. The many arguments I have had over the years.

Adobe is industry standard. It is premium price. But it is premium software.

I am Pro Adobe, I've tried and tested and been a beta tester for all those software's I mentioned. Affinity especially, I beta test their software.

My opinion is it is not up to the same standard.

But it is cheaper and might suit you.

The problem with using non industry standard software is if it comes to handing over native files. And handing over files created in affinity or sketch or Scribus will likely incur hefty conversion charges for your client.

I used quark for years. Wouldn't touch it with a barge pole now. Same with Pacemaker, Framemaker, and plenty of others.

As I say it costs 60 quid a month...If you aren't making that a month then the professional grade software is not for you.

I think it works out as 2 quid a day. The price of a cup of coffee.

You should be able to build a hidden charge to your clients too, so that it covers the cost of the software for you.

If you don't have clients and doing it for a hobby, it may not be for you.
 

hankscorpio

Moderator
Staff member

support​




Last Published: 23 February 2021
Adobe will disable support for authoring with Type 1 fonts in January 2023

Overview​

Type 1 fonts (also known as PostScript, PS1, T1, Adobe Type 1, Multiple Master, or MM) are a deprecated format within the font industry, replaced by the larger glyph sets and more robust technical possibilities of OpenType format fonts.
Type 1 fonts were introduced by Adobe in 1984 for use with its PostScript page description language, and became widely used with the spread of desktop publishing software and printers that could use PostScript. In 1996, Adobe products and type development began to concentrate on the use of more versatile OpenType fonts rather than Type 1.
While the use of Type 1 fonts is still supported by some operating systems, it is not supported in many environments crucial to modern platforms, including web browsers and mobile OSes. The lack of support for Unicode information in Type 1 fonts also limits their ability to support extended language character sets.
 

sprout

Active Member
Adobe are right to ditch Type1s. The character set is nowhere near as extensive. It’s not a conspiracy to lock you in. Besides, there’s nothing to stop you licensing fonts individually if you wish to.

I have been designing a series of books for the last few years (one per year) with an old type 1 version of a font I bought years and years ago, which is not available on Adobe Fonts or through my Monotype Library Subscription. I kept meaning to upgrade it, but, if it ain’t broke, and all that. Anyway, for this next book, given the warnings about type 1, I decided to finally get around to upgrading it – not worth the risk of incompatibilities.

Worth every penny. with the ligatures, small caps, old style figures, contextual alternatives, etc, etc. Makes for much higher quality typography. That’s why they are ending support. Type 1s just don’t have that sort of functionality.

Also, it’s hard enough for type designers to earn a crust at the best of times, so not a bad thing to spend some pennies occasionally on supporting the industry. It’s another one saturated with low quality rubbish put together by people who haven’t a clue what they are doing, but think they do. Type design is a very, very time-consuming, exacting and obsessive practice. If you want to design with top quality fonts, you need to pay top quality type designers to make them.
 

hankscorpio

Moderator
Staff member
Yes, there is no conspiracy. Adobe moved to a cloud based subscription model because it was the most pirated software on the planet. They need to make bang for their buck too.

They have corporates, like fashion houses, restaurant chains (think McDonalds, Burger King) - basically any industry that has marketing - they probably have designers and they use Adobe.

Adobe license their software to big corporate chains - and that's 1000's of licenses per year globally for each company. They set a fair price - and people pay it.

Honestly, if you or I stopped using Adobe, I don't think they'd notice, or even care.

Adobe are corporate driven, yes there are the little guys on the ground doing their own thing. But in the grand scheme of things, we're just very tiny fish in a very tiny pond.

I know one place I worked at they have offices all over the world doing Pharmaceutical work and they had 500 people in the US, 1000 people in Europe, 800 people in India etc.

And they bought licenses for each and every person as Adobe is the industry standard.

If you think about it - if you change from Adobe to another player - will anyone even notice.

The likes of Affinity - they have to convince big corporations to ditch Adobe and go with them - good luck with that.
We only had a shift from Quark to InDesign just over 20 years ago. I'm not sure if the Industry is ready for another massive shift like that again.
 

hankscorpio

Moderator
Staff member
Not only don't think I think Affinity is up to scratch - and it's not, believe me. It's a great start for them.
When Quark was around it couldn't be beat. The Adobe ditched their Pagemaker and came up with InDesign.
When InDesign hit the market, it could do all the things Quark did - but it could do even more - live effects right in front of your eyes, no more going to Illustrator to add a drop shadow. You could do it on the page. It was ground breaking.

I was excited for Affinity Publisher - but they didn't come out with something better than what is already there. Sure they have some nice features, and some great new ways of thinking of how to approach an issue. And some say some things work better than the way InDesign handle them - I have no doubt on that. That's fine.

But their long document features severely lack and that was a deal breaker for me.
 

sprout

Active Member
We only had a shift from Quark to InDesign just over 20 years ago. I'm not sure if the Industry is ready for another massive shift like that again.
I remember it well – and not in a good way. Took quite some time and both sytems had to be run concurrently for a period. it was hugely expensive for places like publishers, working along to supply chain with all their freelancers, editors, printers having to change their entire workflow. Things were nowhere near as complicated or convoluted as they are now.

I am not one for championing massive international corporates and usually will be the first to rail against them, but, I’m with Hank on this one. For the money Adobe provide a fantastic product for reasonable money. It

Sure, for some people it may seem expensive, but it’s a tool of the trade. You don’t really need it unless it’s for your business and as far as the costs to run a business goes, it is peanuts. If you worked in almost any other industry, the outlay is far higher. For example, I was talking to the car guy who runs my local garage and putting aside, for now, the huge sums he spends on hardware and tools, even the software for his diagnostic machine costs a silly amount to update every year – and he has to, as new cars come out all the time. i Can’t remember the exact figure, but it was enough to make explete in sympathy.

What does a freelancer need? £600 a year on software and an upgrade to you machine every few. Even that is cheaper. I used to cost in for hardware upgrades every 3 years, now, I have a couple of iMac that are pushing 10 years old and still going strong. I am looking to upgrade one of them this year, but if you divide the cost over the period, then that‘s not expensive.

I think we have nothing to moan about. Go ask your local baker what their annual outlay is. My wife manages a hotel. The outlay there would make your eyes water.

That was only meant to be a quick reply. I’m beyond help!
 

VMdesign

New Member
Hi both
I'm really grateful for your responses, even thought they don't marry with my opinion. It's exactly why I posted, I wanted to know what others thought. I am a hugely experienced designer who has worked across multiple different disciplines over the years and when I saw the type 1 flag on InDeign and that took me through to an Adobe page pushing their typeface offering, it made me see red.
As a consumer, rather than designer, I have been feeling increasingly uncomfortable with the general move to online subscriptions for media and software. I know from a business perspective it's to stop piracy or theft, but from a consumer angle it's eroding our 'rights'. Let's say you have a music collection via Apple and they go bust (unlikely) potentially your music collection is gone, all that money for something that isn't really your own. Perhaps I'm letting that view of the world colour how I'm feeling about Adobe, I will admit that. However this latest gripe comes on the tail of several questionable upgrade decisions from Adobe that have really made people angry with them, the change in how palettes work in Photoshop to name only one. I too remember the switch form Quark to InDesign, I welcomed it just as you both did.
As for whether my swapping from Adobe to something else will effect them, no obviously not, it's more a moral question for myself. I am an advocate of big companies who have a captive audience acting responsibly though and putting their customers wellbeing at least on the same page as their shareholder demands.
 

sprout

Active Member
Thing is, did we ever really own it. Not really. It just made is feel that we did because we had a box. It was only ever licensed. Same with music. In fact, exactly the same with us, If you design something for someone, copyright dictates that you retain intellectual copyright – and should – unless you specifically assign it to the client. I’m sure we’ve all had work ‘appropriated’ and it stinks. So, although I, too, liked the old way of getting the new box with new software in it, in so many ways it just doesn’t make sense. It is that feeling of buying a new album and poring over the cover for hours. Is it just nostalgia for those of us past a certain age? Aside from copyright and theft protections the other advantage to the current way of doing things is the environmental impact. Think of all the plastic and trees not used because we just download software, music, etc. Like everything there are downsides, of course, but I think the plusses outweighs them. Also, we get the most up to date software, all of the time. Just yesterday, I used Photoshop’s new neural jpeg artefact removal tool. Couldn't have done that if I still has CS6 in a box. I think this one, like the Mac vs PC issue will rumble forever. Except, with this one, we have little choice, apart from to cut our noses off to spite our faces and step out of the adobesphere.
 

hankscorpio

Moderator
Staff member
when I saw the type 1 flag on InDeign and that took me through to an Adobe page pushing their typeface offering, it made me see red.
To be fair - they are moving with the times - other software and new technologies don't support Type 1.
That's the first thing. The next thing is their marketing - you don't know this but I'm an ACP (Adobe Certified Professional) and I help out on the forums - I've even written a few of the help files for Adobe on their software, especially InDesign.
I have a secret backdoor on the Adobe forum where I can voice my concerns.

The huge thing for me is their marketing - it's so pushy. I hate the new InDesign New Document dialog box - I actually fought really hard with them to change that. I had so many people against me. But it's not as bad as it was - it's still bad.
They had pushed all the main controls for the new document to one side, in a scrollable field, and the bleed and the slug were hidden, you had to scroll to find them. I was furious.

I took it up with them and they scaled back the marketing panel on the left side now, and it's not as in your face.


This is a challenge Adobe seem to be facing on multiple levels, they want the corporate sponsorship of buying 1000's of copies. but they also want the little guy. In trying to reel in the big fish, they let the little fish go to the wayside.
The little fish don't buy 1000s of copies, so they try hook them with marketing, templates, stock photos, fonts - they are trying to make a one stop shop.

But they miss the point so very badly.


As a consumer, rather than designer, I have been feeling increasingly uncomfortable with the general move to online subscriptions for media and software. I know from a business perspective it's to stop piracy or theft, but from a consumer angle it's eroding our 'rights'. Let's say you have a music collection via Apple and they go bust (unlikely) potentially your music collection is gone, all that money for something that isn't really your own.
Ask Taylor Swfit - didn't her manager secure the rights to all her songs.

You may be uncomfortable with it, but think of other media, I pay for Disney+, Prime, Netflix, Sky, Sky On Demand, Sky Movies and Sky Sports, along with my broadband it costs about €200 a month.

Disney+ - nope but I like Wandavision, Mandalorian, Star Wars, and I like the Marvel Movies.
PRime - nope but I watch the Tennis and they get a lot of it.
Netflix - it's tied into my sky and my whole family use it from Ireland to England to Australia to America.
Sky, OnDemand, Movies and Sports - I watch them all.

Is it fair? Nope. I wish it was cheaper. But it's the price. And I want to watch things that's the price. If I don't pay it - then I can't watch them.
 

VMdesign

New Member
I see your point, I really do and the benefits of online software are multiple. Perhaps I am harkening back to a bygone age! I just feel if you have a physical piece of media like a music CD, you can play it independently of internet connection or any external influence. Going back to the typeface issue, I have many clients who commissioned bespoke typefaces with multiple fonts for their brand and have no intention of changing. I guess they will just have to spring for having them converted.
 

VMdesign

New Member
@hankscorpio our messages crossed. It's really good to hear you're battling from the inside. I'm sure a monster machine like Adobe has many plates to juggle and people to please. It's good to know someone with some on the ground experience is advising them and I too hate the hard sell, drives me mad. I read a comment from someone the other day who was sooooo angry about the change to Photoshop pallets. They said they felt like someone has walked into the their art studio, removed all their paints and brushes and trashed the place. I think that's a good point. We're creatives who rely on our 'tools' to do a job within a given time and when our tools are messed with it makes people angry and frustrated. Not emotions that are good customer service.
 

hankscorpio

Moderator
Staff member
Don't get me wrong, it took me 5 years to get footnotes to span columns, and about 9 years to get tables cells to split across pages... it's crazy.
But apparently, they have other things to do.
 

VMdesign

New Member
Well, then I owe you my thanks because both those things drove me mad in tables! This has been really helpful for me, both of your comments have made me rethink how I feel about the level of the monthly cost. I still feel grumpy about he typefaces though. ;)
 
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