When a client is spoiling a beautiful design

I've suffered this problem a few times, My personal policy is to keep designing/tweaking concepts until the client is 100% happy - on occasions thats been met first time or as many as 20 different edits later.

I try when possible to design the initial site perhaps a little more adventurous than they maybe wanted, often its met with "wow didnt think of that.. I like it" but sometimes the opposite. Its about establishing what exactly the client wants (often they dont know, or explain it incorrectly - leaving the wrong impression). Once thats established I find it a great deal easier to create a design without them having to annihilate it.

I remember I asked a friend of mine, whos a very, very good designer what to do in situations like this... He said "being a designer is about persuading a client there ideas are good but unsuited - suggest and alternative but leave them thinking its there doing"

I'll leave it on the note that a client once asked me to make a button which if they clicked a hundred pop-ups appeared with various slogans etc... fun :D
 
Hi Greg,
My approach is based on what hasn't worked in the past and what works now and makes my business and life more effecient. That is not to say is right for all businesses tho. If I was twenty years younger in this business I wouldn't have the knowledge, experience or reputation to be as dictating as I am. It is our job to know the clients business just as well as them, crack that and it's easy. But understand all clients have a product/service or make a product. Our job is to sell that product or service in that marketplace or a designer you won't/can't or doesn't know how to probe and flesh the key areas of the brief out then your job is so much harder.
As a designer if I meet a client I 'll ask the questions that i need answers for to make the design process painless. The starting point is the most important area of the job. Get it nailed with the client early on and its a swift process, that first meeting is where i probe and actually find the true starting point of the project. That answer has been flesh out from the client and he has provided the solution by simple detective work. Because they have 'ownership' of the concept beginnings by coming up with the answer they are involved and the infact sign off the project easily as it theirs. You just have to know how to pull the strings without anyone knowing.
 
Thanks for expanding on that Berry, I personally think the design briefing part of the process is something I need to work on strengthening for my own freelance projects. As the majority of my clients are businesses not local to me I have to rely on questionnaires that I send out and phone calls as oppose to face-to-face meetings. When I have chance I'm going to re-work my questionnaire, and possibly make an online version on my site to really make the most of the information I can get at the early stages.
 
How wonderful to never take feedback!
Very refreshing to know that someone knows EVERYTHING!

(Perhaps my use of 'you' would have been better as 'one'?)
 
Greg said:
Tthe majority of my clients are businesses not local to me I have to rely on questionnaires that I send out and phone calls as oppose to face-to-face meetings. When I have chance I'm going to re-work my questionnaire, and possibly make an online version on my site to really make the most of the information I can get at the early stages.

As you are more online based and not client facing that makes your job much a harder than mine.
You are not in the position to create a true 'relationship' with clients where they can be a part of the original thought process. I have a sheet of off the wall questions, non brief related that I ask certain clients to answer. I evaluate the response and it gives me a handle on the person and their 'subjective' standpoints. This process helps us to make a judgement about what will fly and what won't. It's janet and John stuff - Red wine or Beer, Half full or Half empty, What type of car are you?
I'll see if i can dig it out and post it. Iet may help give you a steer.
 
Thanks Berry would be interested to see some of the questions you ask, as you say I think the questions I send out are even more crucial for me as I'm more online based.
 
pcbranding said:
How wonderful to never take feedback!
Very refreshing to know that someone knows EVERYTHING!

(Perhaps my use of 'you' would have been better as 'one'?)


1. It is wonderful!
2. In front of a client I do know EVERYTHING.
3. 'One' - God, Jehovah, Master of the Universe, The Dark Lord Sauron...I'll live with any of those.

I or One, don't need acceptance or input off or from others to justify my work or decisions. Life is not a debate or meeting.
 
Actually, in front of a client they know everything and you should use the time throughout the project to take in as much as that 'everything' as possible. No one will ever know a business better than the person who runs it.

I see where your coming from about when clients interfere, but i think it is a bit harsh to say that they have no say in the design process and no interference what so ever. Yes you do know best when it comes to design, but its your job to take on their feedback and explain the pros and cons - not just alienate the client by letting them have no input what so ever into something they are paying for!

I believe the client should be involved throughout the entire process of a design project - research, moodboards, mocks, design, development. Their knowledge is invaluable and something they bring up could enlighten you to something you hadn't noticed before, which could develop into a killer feature.
 
That is a young niave inexperienced thought. Trust me, You'll not feel or say that after 20 years running after clients and watching your work evaporate and get compromised.
each to his own opinion and methods, mine are borne out of the harsh reality of a long time dealing with clients.
My life now is a lot more fullfilling by my approach. But as i said i have the luxury of my own agency and doing it my way or no way. What the client wants and what he gets are two different things.
 
What the client wants and what he gets are two different things.

Is this seriously how you deal with your clients? You may be comfortable saying that here, but I guarantee you don't say this to the client when you first meet them. They would be straight out the door. Working with someone isn't a 'I know best' competition, it's a partnership. You work together to arrive at the best possible solution for both parties. I'd think about changing your outlook.

Young and inexperienced i might be, but I'm quite sure I'm not naive about this one and confident I won't be as stubborn as you after 20 years. Work with your clients, not against them - your business will be better off for it!
 
retrowilly said:
Young and inexperienced i might be, but I'm quite sure I'm not naive about this one and confident I won't be as stubborn as you after 20 years. Work with your clients, not against them - your business will be better off for it!

Er.. my business is better off. I have a £2m turnover and 12 staff in just 3 years so I must be doing something right! A former Chairman of Creative Circle and ex-judging panel of D&AD, Roses, Fresh.
 
Let's leave 'Berry' to carry on doing things his way, with all of his experience, earning all of his money, with all of his staff and get back to providing useful advice for the other 99% of the UK design population, who gain support from each other... which is after all the whole point of this forum/thread.
 
Everyone has a right to their own opinion on this sort of issue, just think we all need to remember everyone has their own way of working with clients each with their own benefits and drawbacks, thanks for sharing your opinions everyone, it's proved to be an interesting discussion :)
 
pcbranding said:
Let's leave 'Berry' to carry on doing things his way, with all of his experience, earning all of his money, with all of his staff and get back to providing useful advice for the other 99% of the UK design population, who gain support from each other... which is after all the whole point of this forum/thread.

The whole point of the thread is to offer advice. Freedom of choice and how you act on advice, comments or view is what makes living in the Western world so special.

What you do and how you use that information is up to you and only you.

But if everyone just wants praise, a slap on the back and to feel comfortable in a clicky little club - then, that's again is their choice. A forum is an open area for discussion, debate, opinions, views and information. But sheep huddle together.
 
Guys, it's clear that you both have very different approaches to handling your clients, and clearly each way has been very successful for you both, you've both offered advice and reasoning behind that which is great. I think we should leave it there with that direction of this thread.

Thanks, Greg
 
I totally agree, even the client has the right to their opinion. Surprises me that people would be happy paying for that - Good luck to them
 
I like disagreement, shows people arn't scared to voice an opinion.

Both very valid arguments and its obvious that both sides of the fence work for different types of people.
 
Update.

We've now produced the web concept and the client has given us positive feedback on that, his main issue with the web design was the logo....would you believe it.

So we took the design and slapped the original logo in before he got "creative" with it , you know the one he said looked like a "splodge of paint on the page" and he loves it. I think I'm going to take some advice from Berry in future at the end of the day I wouldn't let a client tell me to use tables instead of CSS.
 
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