Students urged to avoid design...

Guess my personal opinion is different then... but that made no particular difference to the topic TBH, I was simply making a statement to try and point out a certain scenario, which is what I'm trying to make the focus of my conversation on here...
 
Interesting topic...I think they guy is right urging students to avoid because I think what will happen is...if people actually read things on the news and in blogs and things like that (which they usually don't)...people will see this and the ones who are really motivated and really passionate about the career will stay in it no matter what the circumstances are, then the others who really don't know what in the hell they're doing will change to another career...so I don't think he meant to target EVERY design student out there...but he worded it in such a way that it should make an impact on those who are clueless.

For example, i'm in the states and i'm going to college for a graphic design degree. I don't call myself a great designer by any means because I follow sites such as abduzeedo, psdtuts, faveup, these forums and a ton other design forums and blogs and see so many people out there doing things that I can't even dream of doing right now. The problem is at my college, i'm almost embarassed to say that there are people in my classes that don't even know how to use Photoshop, or aren't even good at computers. Then we have people that say they're good at Photoshop but they're the one's that just Photoshop a picture of themselves for MySpace or whatever. So really they don't have any previous knowledge and they're hoping to get it from college...which is not going to happen the way they expect.

You can even look at some of them and see they don't even have an eye for design, they're good artists, but aren't good designers and that is a big problem.

Anyway, I don't agree with what the guy is saying about the recession killing design jobs, I guess in some fields of design yes but where i'm working right now business is better than ever. Our company has been in business since 2000 and we've sold more websites this January than any January since the company started.

So that part I don't agree with, but I do think a lot of the current design students should move elsewhere because they're going to have issues when they get out especially if they didn't have any experience before going in college.
 
Tim, ah the voice of youth. You're quite right to challenge my opinion as it is only that - my opinion.

As for 20 years ago, I was pointing that over the last 20 years the same problems have been faced by people leaving college looking for that elusive first job. I can't talk about before that because I have no experience of that time.

As for Berry's quote, he always speaks wisely and I agree with it 100%.

These days anyone can buy a Mac, get hold of a dodgy copy of Creative Suite and call themselves a designer and knock out some work for next to nothing. Unfortunately there are people who do this, also there are those who will accept this as professional design, unknowingly or not – and probably pay money for this, but not more then once – hopefully.

As you mention, if you have talent and the desire to fulfil a role in the create industry, whatever discipline, you will rise.

Although remember, who you know makes a big difference too. I can't remember if it was David Ogilvy or Paul Arden who uttered these wise words "the feet you tread on today, may be attached to the arse you kiss tomorrow" and they are so right...
 
Yeah, agreed Dereck.

I do know what you mean about the Creative Suite and the Mac analogy. I know someone who did this, doesn't even take it seriously but spent £3500 on it. Stupidity or what!? Doesn't want to go any further than an occasional evening job, and charges less than £100 for a 15 page site! The standards are pathetic.

character1 said:
I still like the Darwinian theory on this one - survival of the fittest.

Agree with that too.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by character1
I still like the Darwinian theory on this one - survival of the fittest.
Agree with that too.

Im a third one agreeing with that too!

If we are being totally honest, the struggle of not being able to get a job sooner or later is just going to make the industry bloom and bloom!!
 
VertigoSFX said:
... see so many people out there doing things that I can't even dream of doing right now. The problem is at my college, i'm almost embarassed to say that there are people in my classes that don't even know how to use Photoshop, or aren't even good at computers. Then we have people that say they're good at Photoshop but they're the one's that just Photoshop a picture of themselves for MySpace or whatever. So really they don't have any previous knowledge and they're hoping to get it from college...which is not going to happen the way they expect.


I have to agree on this one. Much of web design is self-taught. Taking classes certainly help in getting terminology and general principles down...

But many of the finer details (the concept of semantics, making a website usable, SEO) I personally learned from reading blogs of people who knew stuff I didn't, who explained stuff I couldn't understand, and so I gradually learned about topics I'd never be formally taught. A sort of learning-by-immersion concept, the same way most language teachers say is the best way to become fluent. Most writers are voracious readers, right?

So I guess the industry is tougher now, but anyone who's enthusiastic, willing to work hard, taken the initiative and learned and experimented on their own...people who can set themselves apart from other design school grads—they'll thrive.
 
I think this is good to spread around, maybe...
On one hand, it's good because many places Graphic Design is full of students that choose the subject because it's "trendy". I think the people that really wants this is going to study it no matter what (hey, we all know that if we wanna get rich, graphic design isn't the right way to go).
 
hey, we all know that if we wanna get rich, graphic design isn't the right way to go

This is an interesting comment and I like how blunt you put it for people who are unaware of it already. However, a few things that sprung to mind when you said this (all kind of rhetorical).

- does this apply to everyone? Freelancers? Agencies?
- does this apply to website designers/developers too? More money for one job however more time too?

(My little pointless contribution for the day!)
 
philjohns said:
This is an interesting comment and I like how blunt you put it for people who are unaware of it already. However, a few things that sprung to mind when you said this (all kind of rhetorical).

- does this apply to everyone? Freelancers? Agencies?
- does this apply to website designers/developers too? More money for one job however more time too?

(My little pointless contribution for the day!)


Of course, this doesn't apply to everyone, if you are good enough and have the knack for the business-side of it too, then you can make good money off graphic design. I'm not a senior designer or anything myself, so I can't say anything a hundred per cent, really. What I meant was, if you are looking for a job because of the paycheck, I don't think graphic design is the way to go (especially since without passion, you won't succeed, and without success you won't make big money). There are graphic designers that live pretty high life, beeing able to take the company personal plane etc. (True example, so everyone: go for Wallpaper AD!!!). From statistics I've seen, in-house designers make all around more than freelancers but this varies. On the question on web vs. print I'm not shure, but I think it's easier to get long-term jobs with web because they require more maintenance and updates than a poster do ;)

But the overall situation of the pay for graphic designers is again linked to what this thread is about. If there is, say 10 jobs available for graphic designers, and 50 graphic designers available then it's natural that the prices then you get "inflation" in the business, and the prices go down.
 
electricalyce said:
But the overall situation of the pay for graphic designers is again linked to what this thread is about. If there is, say 10 jobs available for graphic designers, and 50 graphic designers available then it's natural that the prices then you get "inflation" in the business, and the prices go down.
Base rule of supply and demand ;)
I posted this image in a different topic but I think I might post it again

survey_5.jpg

Source: Rockable Press Freelance Statistics Report
 
@electricalyce: I wasnt expecting such a reply to my rhetorical questions however on second thoughts I spose its all relevant! Really interesting hearing your thoughts on them.

@onartis: An interesting table/image. However I am not sure how realistic it is - especially with the currency rates at the moment - work it out for sterling and it seems a bit off for some jobs. ;)
 
Nice graph. ;) In conclusion: it doesn't really matter (finance-wise) if I become a writer. Although I think I'm thinking of a different brand of writer than

Also, I have to check out some of the books Onartis mentioned earlier. I looked once at my local bookstore but they weren't there—I may have to resort to Amazon.
 
Forget what I've said previously, I now know what the guy meant when he said that students (not knowing how to design) should not go into it.
 
Just to open this post up again, what do you guys really think? brutally honest, about young people entering the design industry? it seems everyone nowadays has a graphic design BA, or is that just me?
 
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