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Mixed Martial Arts

Discussion in 'Tenders & Services Required Forum:' started by ChrisJ, Sep 8, 2009.

  1. ChrisJ

    ChrisJ New Member

    Salary Offer: £20-£80 paid by Cheque (discussed below).
    Task: Design a Mixed Martial Arts logo for the University of Manchester MMA Society.
    Brief: Must incorporate an MMA related image that is not copy righted (and if it is permission has been granted to be used freely) and the words 'MMA Society' and 'Manchester'.


    ImageShack -

    A fist that can be used as the beginning M in Manchester or MMA,
    or some tribal/flame design on the fist.

    These are just ideas for a logo! I am sure people can really take this outside of the box and go for some cool designs with possible silouettes and flames etc. or whatever - definetly worth looking around at some MMA sites for ideas:

    The logo must however be in white on a black background. And will not be too complex as to be unable to be transferred to clothing.

    The salary, mentioned above, will be paid after completion of the project and after the signup period for the society. On this basis, the signup period is not for another 3 weeks followed by a week when people pay to join. However, the logo will immediately be mine in ownership once proffered.
    If 20 people join (v v v likely) I will pay £20 for the logo.
    If 35 people join (v v v likely) I will pay £30 for the logo.
    If 60 people join (v v likely) I will pay £55 for the logo.
    If 100 people join (v likely) I will pay £80 for the logo.
    If 100< join I may potentially pay over £120.

    I think this is a tidy salary division for those with a novice competency in Photoshop or suchlike and shouldn't be too time consuming - if it only take you an hour thats a £20/hour salary - not bad!

    If you have any queries please post here.


    Last edited: Sep 8, 2009
  2. dogsbody

    dogsbody Member

    So you'll be paying everyone who submits a design done in an hour then?
  3. m_norm

    m_norm New Member

    just go to the design department and beat someone up until they submit a logo
  4. ChrisJ

    ChrisJ New Member

    dogsbody let's not get too clever about the wording. The principle is quite clear if you submit a design which I then decide I would like to use then you will get paid.

    Yes, it may mean I accept more than one design, but it is purely on the basis of me accepting a proffered design not paying out for designs just proffered.

    Hope that clears up any confusion.
  5. Mercy Design

    Mercy Design Member

    Oi- Fist of Fury
    it doesn't work like that- have a look at everyone's portfolio, choose the one you like and pay them a set price.

    It's not fair to expect people to work for free, nor to estimate the number of people you envisage joining, and basing the fee on that. An OK rate for a logo is around £500 by the way...

    A logo is a time consuming job that usually involves a lot of to-ing and fro-ing as clients like to show work to their colleagues, mates and family to ensure that it "looks right" (and rightly so), however that means the designer isn't just spending an hour farting about on Photoshop, but a good few days mocking up options, alternatives and dealing with amends.

    I recommend you offer the job to a design student from the university, and exercise a little respect in dealing with potential co-workers.
  6. ChrisJ

    ChrisJ New Member

    Maybe you should learn to curb your tongue.

    There is no excuse for people to be pedantic about wording just to cause inconvenience.

    I'm not asking for something for commercial use, nor am I asking for something that is time-consuming. This is a perfect niche project for someone looking to earn a few quid and practice their photoshop skills on a basic pilot project.

    I am paying yourselves. Possibly a sum of money that your uninterested in, therefore do not commit. It is that simple. As potential suppliers who may be interested then would you if you were seriously interested start being pedantic? I think not; it's unprofessional and irritating.

    'It's not fair to expect people to work for free, nor to estimate the number of people you envisage joining, and basing the fee on that.' I'm not asking people to work for free, I'm asking them to submit potential design ideas or indicate their interest. Maybe you should research how marketing agencies and architects compete for projects? They give examples of their work related to the idea, potentially, and then get paid to draw up the final plan.

    I am being entirely honest with the salary I am willing to pay. I do not think it is unfair to be honest especially as I can only afford to pay the money dependant on the amount of people that join.

    So, if people would like to work on a small project with an honest person, at a novice level to help a University society and get paid a reasonable sum of money for their time. Then please do get in contact.

    I hardly feel that I have been rude; as per usual with certain forums it appears that certain members are all too willing to preach "correct etiquette" whilst betraying their inability to be welcoming and helpful.
    This topic has therefore, thanks to someone being intentionally pedantic and reading ambiguity turned into bickering, where members will chirp in to have their own condescending thoughts shared.

    I came here for help on a project that I thought may appeal. Maybe I got the wrong forum? Seemingly so.
    Last edited: Sep 8, 2009
  7. dogsbody

    dogsbody Member

    Chris don't take it personally man, but would you spend time training multiple pupils for free until one decides he wants to carry on learning and pay for the course? I don't know how much training you've had to do to perform your job, but I very much doubt you'd take people on for nothing hoping one of them pays up for a course.

    Lots of people come here asking for design work for free or far below the going rate for the job, but like most other people, designers have studied and worked long & hard to accrue the knowledge and skills to do what a client wants. It can hardly be a surprise that people are loathe to submit a design they may have worked hours on on the off chance they may get remunerated for their work?
  8. ChrisJ

    ChrisJ New Member

    dogsbody, thanks for the excellent post.

    I see your point; why work with no guarantee of payment?

    Well, for two reasons really, it's a very small project - one logo. It also won't require particuarly advanced skills, so I was hoping it could be mocked up quickly. Lots of people in the opensource world will work for free to get their name out, I was hoping someone, possibly with an interest in MMA already, would take an interest with the guaranteed payment of a few pounds for effort and knock something up. As such I thought it'd be perfect for a novice or someone looking to earn a bit of cash quickly.
  9. designbydave

    designbydave New Member

    hmmm Chris...
    Good points raised by everyone. But I can also see your point. At least you're offering something I guess.
    I'll do it for you as i live in Manchester and am willing to help out. A few conditions though, if you don't mind.

    A minimum fee of £75 for the logo. At the end of the day, you and me both know that it's going to take a quite some time to get it right, especially as you have some fairly strong ideas of how you want it to look already. Which leads me onto the next point:

    You have to be willing to possibly look at some other ideas, as well as the fist one. As a creative, I'd like to think I might be able to better that, nothing guaranteed, but i'd give it a go...

    What do you think?

    Oh, website is if you want examples of what i've done already.
  10. ChrisJ

    ChrisJ New Member

    Hi Dave,

    I'm thrilled with your interest. Had a look at your website and love the work.
    Now onto the business part, as I kind of conveyed I am really interested in what you have to offer and would like to take you up on your offer. Due to my inexperience with these kind of "deals" and from what I have already conveyed I can only reiterate:
    1. I cannot pay you until members have joined. I can almost 100% guarantee that I can get at least 60 signed and paid members. Now I only need 9 to be able to pay you.
    2. Members will be joining in about a month's time.
    3. I will need the work before payment and sometime over the next two weeks (preferably).

    However, I am willing to hopefully "juice up" the "contract" with an offer of £120 if I get 20 signed members and I will advertise your website and credit you on the Facebook and Groups page as well as recommend you around the campus - bear in mind I'm also on the boxing committee so after my meeting with the other committee members tommorow night I may be able to get you some more business.
    Hope that kind of shows a goodwill gesture at the very least?

    I'm more than happy to give you extensive contact details etc. to prove my integrity and my willingness/dedication/guarantee that I will pay you if it is within my ability - which it 99.9% will be.

    I know it's ghastly to phrase the deal in such a way that you may feel that your working essentially for nothing with the possibility I could be a lying cheating fraud steal your work and never pay you. But I try to follow the code of trusting people. Hopefully we can establish some form of trust?

  11. designbydave

    designbydave New Member

    Ok, it's a deal then. Although i just hope i don't live to regret it!

    Can we close this thread then whoever closes these kinds of threads and you have my email address to send directly now. i will await your direct response within the next day or so to arrange some form of timeline.

    okay guys, fellow designers. Yes, it's not ideal. But perhaps Chris is just after something short term and fairly straight forward. He's willing to pay a small amount for now, with the possibility of more work. The way I see it, it's worth doing. Not all agree and good luck to them. But i'll give it a go.

  12. still don't think you should be designing a logo in photochop… far better to do the do in sillystrator!
  13. Pixels Ink

    Pixels Ink Member

    I agree, you really should be going for a vector logo.
  14. Identity

    Identity Member

    It seems Chris has made his opinions clear, so I only feel it right to air mine...

    Unless you are student and keen for the experience, DO NOT GO ANYWHERE NEAR THIS PROJECT!!! It's got PAIN written all over it. Coupled with the fact payment is reliant on sign ups!?

    If you really want a quick job for that minimal amount of cash please give the graphics students at the college a go. They get valuable experience and you get a free logo, it's a win-win situation.
  15. designbydave

    designbydave New Member

    Thanks for your advice identity. But this job has actually been done!
    In all honesty I was also a little apprehensive about working on the project at the beginning, but after a few emails between myself and Chris, I decided to give it a go.

    I sent over some ideas and Chris loved them all, so much so that he was prepared to up his budget to a more acceptable amount. Okay, it wasn't massive, but it sufficed for my time and meant that I can add another (albeit small) client to my client list.

    I'm in total agreement about unpaid work and I also agree that trepidation should be undertaken with a lot of jobs. However, I also think sometimes you have to give someone a chance. Chris is a student simply aiming to get something off the ground, so i thought it worth lending a hand for a bit of cash.

    Okay, he is due to pay within the next few weeks, so I'll delay any back slapping for now. That said, he's offered his phone number and address and so to be honest, I can always go round with a gun*

    *This is a joke before the police come round! :icon_wink:

    For the forum members advising me to design in illustrator and not photoshop. I don't quite get the joke i'm afraid, i assume it's a joke. I know not to design in Photoshop! But thanks anyway...

    I'll keep all updated.

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