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iPhone 5 Release

Discussion in 'Chill Out Forum:' started by solopressuk, Sep 12, 2012.

  1. solopressuk

    solopressuk Member

    Seeing as today is the launch of the iPhone 5 I was wondering if anyone is already pre-ordered or that excited about it? As far as rumours are concerned, it's just going to be thinner with a larger screen - larger being an extra half an inch. I guess we won't really know what it looks like until it is up and live. What are your thoughts on the whole thing?
     
  2. Levi

    Levi Moderator Staff Member

    lol... 1 post person broaching an apple versus other os/device thread....

    I won't comment as seriously it's not worth the hassle :wub:
     
  3. glenwheeler

    glenwheeler Senior Member

    After seeing it, it looks pretty nice IMHO. iSight Camera looks exceptional. The overall design is pretty smart looking.
     
  4. mrp2049

    mrp2049 Senior Member

    We were talking about this in work today. This is the 6th iphone, I don't even want one anymore! I will be interested when Ive decides to redesign it fully.

    The imac redesign was incredible (g4 - g5), the elimination of the macbook in favour of the air...I love my macbook, still using it now, but that is a massive move.

    I don't see thinner, lighter, more high tech gubbings inside as pushing the envelope anymore. My upgrade is due in a few months, I can see myself going android, because the 6s will be along within a yearish, then if they don't do something magical with 7...the whole thing is just too utilitarian.
     
  5. Jimlad

    Jimlad Well-Known Member

    I still use my trusty iPhone 3G, and I found the 4 and 4s nice but a little underwhelming.
    The iPhone 5 however, makes me seriously consider handing over my cash. Although I'm not liking the idea of paying another company (EE), on top of my network service provider, for the joys of 4G... sod that.
     
  6. tim

    tim Senior Member

    ... i'm buying one.
     
  7. tim

    tim Senior Member

    and for the record, i've been using a Galaxy Nexus for the last two weeks. i love it.

    shame it's made by Samsung. Samsung is against my religion.
     
  8. tim

    tim Senior Member

    nope. not widespread enough for me to go on such a shocking network as EE.

    i'll wait for 3 to have their spectrum of LTE.
     
  9. Levi

    Levi Moderator Staff Member

    Lol, theres plenty of people who are against the apple religion so I'll let you have that one [​IMG]
    I'm waiting on the next nexus phone as that will hopefully use the newer arm architecture which is better in just about every aspect :)

    I actually quite like the look of the new ipod touches, much better than the chrome back (prefer black front), it's just a shame they cost so much though that they just don't seem like good value for money.

    I can get a 7" galaxy nexus for less than the new ipod touches, yeah it's bigger and slightly less memory but when your phone is comparable size to an iPod touch or as apple wants an iphone the extra size of the screen seems better for web/video etc. If it's just for music would you actually bother with an ipod touch?

    The nano just looks daft with the white front, wouldn't have looked bad with black though... and the icons, what happened there...

    PS... I like samsung [​IMG] and I'm in the same boat regarding lte... not a chance I'll get that anytime soon, not that it would make much difference to me.

    and look I'm being good :wub:
     
  10. tim

    tim Senior Member

    thank god, i was waiting for your approval!


    nah i'm opposed to Samsung and HP for literally shamefully copying Apple products, and i'd be opposed to Apple if they copied anyone else like Samsung and HP have.

    i like the ipod touch. never bought one, never wanted one because of my iPhone. they have their own specific market that they penetrate very well.

    main reason i love my iPhones are because of the cameras. iPod touch doesnt have the same 8mp + optics as the 4S/5, so not bothered by it. i would've probably just bought an ipod touch and kept my iphone 4s if it had the better camera.


    i have shares in Apple that reach new highs every few months. i bought at $136 and they're currently at $690. these products are making me happier regardless of whether or not i buy them.


    for the record: i like the 7" tablet, but it feels like it's missing something. i wouldn't buy a wifi only tablet anymore, for one, no matter how cheap. but it feels like it's missing a purpose- like it's filling a market requirement of cheap products rather than a market requirement for great use and features.
     
  11. Levi

    Levi Moderator Staff Member

    cough notification drop down and braun (sure you've seen the pictures) cough. [​IMG]

    The thing is the way design works in the product market is that EVERY competitor will analyse the competition and then look to improve on it, it's how apple works, it's how samsung works, it's how microsoft works.

    The problem arises when stupid things get patents granted in the US (UK has a bit more sense unsurprisingly) allowing stupid things to be patented, for example the shape of the macbook air, ie the 'wedge' (not the first to use that shape), rounded corners on slates (others had done it first) or specific icons like the universally understood 'green' telephone or a 'cog' for settings...

    You also don't see tv manufactures suing over someone else doing the same shape/look of a tv, which is limited by the rectangular screen shape after all (like a phone), they try to compete on features, price etc. Apple doesn't seem to be willing to do this while pretty much every other phone company is willing to. It's their choice but a lot of people on sites I read are basically saying apple would be better off just stopping the sue happy approach they've taken of late and go back to 'innovating' or just making their phone better than anyone else... people who want apple will buy apple, people who don't won't, trying to take out the competition won't make people buy apple although it might get apple brought up for anti competitive monopoly type stuff like ms received with internet explorer

    But hey thats all for the courts to deal with, I can't see there being no new android phones anytime soon, not with google owning motorola :)

    unless you buy a specific sim for the tablet (extra cost) you may as well stick to wifi, 90% of new phones have access to the 'hotspot' feature anyways and most people carry their phone with them pretty much all the time... yeah yeah I know it's technically not allowed on most contracts but I've never had an issue. Side note: theres a rumour of a 3g nexus 7...

    I actually like the 7" size, not that I've got one as I hardly use the slate I have at the moment...

    I've got a hp touchpad (basically ipad size) dual booting android (cyanogen) and webos (could have been a REALLY REALLY good os) and that just seems too big to lug around 'just in case', it's 50/50 in the house plus 90% of the things I end up using on it are wide screen so a 10.1/7" w/s would be better, the 7" wouldn't actually lose a great deal of viewable area over the touchpad while 10.1" is slightly better for presenting work obviously being bigger etc
     
  12. tim

    tim Senior Member

    *yawwwn* - please note i'm only replying to these because you have the most bias, twisted, blind logic. nothing i haven't seen before.


    first, there is a large difference between inspiration and copying.

    you're referring to the design of the iPhone's calculator (not apple patented) - which mimics how Braun's physical calculator looked in the '80s, or the shape of the Mac Pro (which is not the same in any way, but i'll humour it) compared to a speaker that Braun made in the '80s.

    these are not rip-offs. they are not shamelessly made to try and milk the marketplace. they are homages to Jony Ive's favourite designer. Dieter Rams was quoted saying this as Apple products:

    john gruber's quote sums this up:


    it's crazy how ideas that were "so obvious" that no one thought of 7 years ago (except Apple), are somehow assumed allowed to be universally used. Apple thought up their UI design themselves, and then patented the things that made clear business sense to not have copied. now, samsung complain that because they are so obvious *now*, that they should have full access to them.

    it makes no sense.


    2 things about Apple's court cases.

    Apple have sued, and been sued, for the past 30 years of business. this is not a new phenomenon. in fact, Apple lost a case to Nokia i believe just 6 months ago, and had to pay $11 per iPhone to them (which is billions), but that got no coverage. the news will air what they want to air.

    if you think, however, that Apple were trying to take out Samsung by suing them for $3b, you're wrong. Samsung earned $33b in the last quarter, it wasn't even going to dent them. they were making a clear cut point that their IP is their IP.


    about TVs:

    the difference between TVs is there is really only a few ways to show a consistently rectangular image. no one could sue for having their competitor having a 32" television, after they designed one. but when apple created a 3.5" screen, with one button at the bottom, the cameras specifically placed at the top, and then supported by their own, hand-made UI, you can bet your bottom dollar they're going to want to protect their design.

    tv manufacturers could definitely sue if they used exactly the same design to develop their product - putting the ports and buttons in exactly the same place. that'd be fair.

    samsung have many, many, many patents on tv designs, especially their 3D and 'smart' TVs. i can almost guarantee that if someone copied their new design and started to sell it, they'd go ape sh*t too.


    not many people argue on the side of Samsung about copying Apple's design when they understand what's really happened. people assume Apple are being dicks because they don't truly understand what Apple have been suing for (their UI over their product design, for one), or because they just pure out like criticising everything Apple do.

    if Apple copied Samsung so shamelessly with their S3, would you think it'd be fair for them to sue? hell yes! the difference is, Apple wouldn't base a new phone of a successful design of a Samsung phone.


    about icons:

    apple created a phone and a settings icon. samsung copied the way the phone was displayed, the colour used, and the cogs placement in settings.

    apple couldn't and wouldn't sue for samsung designing their own icons. samsung chose to copy the icons and display them exactly as apple always had.

    and wait... when was the universally accepted image for a phone a green background and a white phone? havent stereotypical phones been red?



    seperately - about tethering:

    i don't use it unless i'm plugged in or desperate. there's no point in owning a tablet if i'm going to waste all my phone battery whilst out and about. i'd rather just have a 3g tablet.

    seperately - about wedge designs:

    maybe look at the patents and understand what exactly Apple have patented. clearly, Levi, no one can patent something that's been around for years. individual patents can only be granted if there is individuality. which apple have shown.

    again, apple don't own the patents because they want to sue people. they own the patents because they designed and manufactured their own product, and they want to protect it. which is not a silly thing to do. that's what patents are there for.
     
  13. mcskillz

    mcskillz Member

    Slightly off topic but I picked up a nexus 7 on a recent trip to the states despite having all apple goodies (pad/phone/air) because I'm working with adobe DPS builder a fair bit and want to start developing for 7" tablets. I have to say for a cheap tablet it's pretty good...
     
  14. Levi

    Levi Moderator Staff Member

    I note you completely ignore the notification drop down... ripped straight out of android....
    Well the problem with 7 years ago isn't so much the 'how obvious' things were but more to do with the technology being used... 7 years ago touchscreens were resistive meaning no multi touch for example (not that a few didn't try to get multi touch on resistive). Also not everyone goes off and patents the obvious stuff because well it's obvious...


    Apple have sued, and been sued, for the past 30 years of business. this is not a new phenomenon. in fact, Apple lost a case to Nokia i believe just 6 months ago, and had to pay $11 per iPhone to them (which is billions), but that got no coverage. the news will air what they want to air.

    and this is why people are anti apple... they have nothing negative posted about them but the instant they 'win' a case, which still needs to go through several more appeals (not least due to a biased judge), it's plastered all over the news...

    if you think, however, that Apple were trying to take out Samsung by suing them for $3b, you're wrong. Samsung earned $33b in the last quarter, it wasn't even going to dent them. they were making a clear cut point that their IP is their IP.

    Actually I think apple is suing samsung because samsung are the only company thats rivalling their iphone (theres plenty of other similar phones from china) and the simple fact is that the iphone is now lagging behind in the tech wars, android has come on leaps and bounds in the last couple of years and samsung has somewhere close to the same market share as apple... why compete in the market with a better phone when they can just use the dodgy patent system instead... oh and note how they're not going directly after android (ie google)




    not many people argue on the side of Samsung about copying Apple's design when they understand what's really happened. people assume Apple are being dicks because they don't truly understand what Apple have been suing for (their UI over their product design, for one), or because they just pure out like criticising everything Apple do.
    don't get me wrong I hate touchwiz,(and htc sense) thought it was ugly and ultimately slowed down android updates etc I just don't think it copied apple, inspired maybe but not copied...

    if Apple copied Samsung so shamelessly with their S3, would you think it'd be fair for them to sue? hell yes! the difference is, Apple wouldn't base a new phone of a successful design of a Samsung phone
    why copy someone when you can just release last years model again with a new innards [​IMG]

    Not to mention the fact that they always use the launcher rather than the homescreen in arguements about how similar the phones look

    about icons:

    apple created a phone and a settings icon. samsung copied the way the phone was displayed, the colour used, and the cogs placement in settings.

    apple couldn't and wouldn't sue for samsung designing their own icons. samsung chose to copy the icons and display them exactly as apple always had.

    Well the cogs are completely different for one thing (3 versus 1) and theres only so many ways you can do a universally accepted icon.... Also the styling of icons could be argued to have been following current trends in the graphic/web fields.


    and wait... when was the universally accepted image for a phone a green background and a white phone? havent stereotypical phones been red?green accept, red reject... been like that ever since I had a mobile...
    But like I said this is for the courts to decide... in us (apples home state) apple wins, outside of the us it's sometimes apple sometimes samsung...


    um when did apple last manufacture their own product.... I thought that was china like just about EVERY other company lol. They design the product and then ship that design off to someone like pegasus or foxconn to make it... they more than likely make prototypes but so does every other large company (remember I work in this field).

    oh and as to my bias etc... I could say you're biased too... but remember I work in the product design fields.... I look at things with more than just a consumer focus, plus I can see past the marketing junk that most companies use these days...


    mcskillz.. the nexus 7 isn't really a cheap slate, it's just sold at cost and google will make up the money from advertising etc. It's specs are up there with the asus transformer (quad +1 core etc) etc which sell closer to 400

    had to type this way due to hitting the 'quote' limit....
     
  15. Jimlad

    Jimlad Well-Known Member

    I'm just trying to decide between staying with O2 or changing to T-Mobile now. I need to find out my average data usage. Upgrading with O2 would be less hassle, and if I use less than 1GB a month then their £26 tariff would suit me fine. If I use more than that then T-Mobile's £36 tariff would be better, plus they have wider 3G coverage.

    ... having said that I think I'll go with T-mobile regardless. O2's downtime in July was damn annoying.
     
  16. mcskillz

    mcskillz Member

    I know it's not a 'budget' slate - but at under £200 for a 16gb, it was definitely cheap!
     
  17. tim

    tim Senior Member

    I note you completely ignore the notification drop down... ripped straight out of android...

    i hate notification center on both iOS and Android. it's cluttered and gets in the way and is not the definition of user friendly.

    i dont disagree that apple didn't copy it, but they changed the pull down's behaviours, it's purpose, what it displays... they didn't just grab it and call it their own.



    and this is why people are anti apple... they have nothing negative posted about them but the instant they 'win' a case, which still needs to go through several more appeals (not least due to a biased judge), it's plastered all over the news...

    i forget... you were at the case weren't you?

    oh no? you weren't?

    apple had many clear appeals thrown out and ignored for absolutely no reason. if anything the only injustice in the courtroom was how poorly samsung were represented by lawyers (they poorly used their time limit to defend with arrogant staff to no avail) and by how their referees came across to a jury.

    the judge did not decide the case, the jury did. the jury were a large mixture of apple and google ex-employees and consultants.

    looks like you read all about the negatively written Apple media (even though you insist it doesn't get reported on).



    Well the cogs are completely different for one thing (3 versus 1) and theres only so many ways you can do a universally accepted icon.... Also the styling of icons could be argued to have been following current trends in the graphic/web fields.

    actually. fancy showing me some pre-iphone and OSX settings cogs? i haven't seen any.

    and apple's phone icon is white, with a green background. (as picky as that sounds, it is much different, yet somehow Samsung ended up with the same design)


    Actually I think apple is suing samsung because samsung are the only company thats rivalling their iphone (theres plenty of other similar phones from china) and the simple fact is that the iphone is now lagging behind in the tech wars, android has come on leaps and bounds in the last couple of years and samsung has somewhere close to the same market share as apple... why compete in the market with a better phone when they can just use the dodgy patent system instead... oh and note how they're not going directly after android (ie google)

    you are out of your mind.

    apple made no difference to samsung except a 1 day drop in shares. people continue to buy their phones. the phones are not banned. the software is allowed to be updated to skip bans of the devices.

    Apple never sued Microsoft for *literally* taking their desktop OS off their hands and shipping it in '83. they just continued to try and innovate. and that didn't work out. they nearly went bankrupt because they let people walk over them.

    any company, anywhere, is allowed to protect their IP at any stage. and if a court agrees (and it's not just a case of the US courts agreeing), Samsung or whoever else will have to pay the price for their rip-offs.


    make products that don't infringe patents and don't get sued. pretty easy logic, really.


    why copy someone when you can just release last years model again with a new innards

    yes.

    iphone 5 = thinner, lighter, larger, faster, better battery, differently manufactured hardware... because that's the same as last year.

    but even if they continued to ship iPhone 4SSSSS or whatever, if it makes their customers buy phones, they're doing their job as a mobile device company.


    "um when did apple last manufacture their own product.... I thought that was china like just about EVERY other company lol. They design the product and then ship that design off to someone like pegasus or foxconn to make it... they more than likely make prototypes but so does every other large company (remember I work in this field)."

    i mispoke. even Samsung don't create their own products.

    and yes of course they make prototypes. those prototypes have been made public and even sold on eBay at times... don't see your point.



    as for bias? come up with an argument based solely on fact and not twisted opinion from Gizmodo and poorly edited US/UK newspapers and i'll believe whatever you tell me.

    all you've done is help solidify my point that if people want to side against Apple, they will, even if they have nothing to back it up.



    aaanyway. i promised i wouldnt post about apple ever again. clearly i lied. i apologise to friends, family, and the bored-out-of-their-mind DF members.
     
  18. tim

    tim Senior Member

    @ Jimlad

    When you sign with T Mobile/Orange you sign up for a 3G contract. when EE launch you then have to re-sign a contract of the same length. they'll transfer your number and account for free, but there's nothing anywhere that doesn't show that contracts will go up £5 a month or more just for the privelege of EE.


    also, O2 aren't getting LTE on iPhone 5. maybe next gen iPhone when there's all spectrums of LTE supported on one chip, but only i think 800mhz and 1600mhz right now.
     
  19. Levi

    Levi Moderator Staff Member

    from the surrounding area of apple's hq and you don't see any of that as an issue.... yeah totally unbiased jury there lol

    windows programs use it a fair bit and windows 8 is also using a cog for it's settings icon... plenty of online tools use it too. There's a difference between being first and universally accepted.

    seriously.... big icon for finger to stab and you would have not thought to reverse the colours so the green is the background and therefore the more prominent colour... thats a simple design idea I was taught while in high school if not before...

    we'll differ on opinions here.

    we don't exactly need to cover xerox do we...


    which is fine if the patent system actually didn't allow stupid things to be patented - note most of this argument is relating to the US not the UK


    You completely missed the sticky out tongue...

    They changed the design this time so they could make a new plug socket (don't yet see the need as the old one would have fit fine) that is not used by anyone else or the old apple docks etc (the new adapter at £25 iirc might be a pricey upgrade for some) and to fit a bigger screen so old apps need updating to support ANOTHER resolution or use black bars top and bottom... but then they do make money on allowing people to make accessories for them...

    I've said it before that apple has the best marketing but that doesn't mean they have the best products or like using industry standards for connectors (unlike all other phone companies who use micro usb per the original intent of the eu regulations).

    "um when did apple last manufacture their own product.... I thought that was china like just about EVERY other company lol. They design the product and then ship that design off to someone like pegasus or foxconn to make it... they more than likely make prototypes but so does every other large company (remember I work in this field)."

    i mispoke. even Samsung don't create their own products. (ah yes the unbiased usage of 'create')

    and yes of course they make prototypes. those prototypes have been made public and even sold on eBay at times... don't see your point.


    You implied that apple manufactures their own products, they don't even label their products that way...and I actually forgot samsung does create and manufacture at least some of it's products... memory/ram (including for apple), cpu (they did fab apple chips too, although not sure about a6 chip), screens, batteries (iirc) and I wouldn't be suprised if they have a plant to put phones together but I'll go with the safe option and say they're put together by foxconn etc
     
  20. tim

    tim Senior Member

    that's why i said i misspoke...

    yeah their phones are not Foxconn but some other Chinese manufacturer - who actually have been having labour issues as big as Apple's, on a separate note!

    xerox licensed their products to Apple because they didn't think computers should be consumer-focused, but business focussed instead. they saw no need for them, and apple took full advantage of that.

    not saying it's not an easy to make, i said they were the first.

    i said show me, not tell me...

    take a look at the day-by-day notes from the case. there were WSJ and NYT journalists covering it, as well as smaller people. *all* of which beg daily for anti-Apple stories, because, especially in the US, people love reading them. they didn't see any issue with the jury. the ones who said they'd any bias left. in fact they spent days reshuffling people there, i'm 90% sure they replaced the whole jury more than once.

    the journalists also covered how badly Samsung represented themselves. they said their executives came across as arrogant and misleading, they didn't answer questions that Apple's team posed to them, and they denied any connection between the 200 page presentation (which literally compared all iOS features to Android- admitting they were behind and admitted they had a 'crisis of design'), to their sudden changes in UI.

    both teams got 15hrs to cover all allegations for and against them. apple reportedly handled it extremely well, whilst samsung spent less time defending and more time wasting.
     

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