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Insulting Job Ads

Discussion in 'Chill Out Forum:' started by scotty, Nov 21, 2014.

  1. scotty

    scotty Well-Known Member

    I occasionally get pings from job sites I've registered to in the past for design roles and I sometimes read them.

    Quite often they go on to list requirements such as "fully experienced, skilled, dedicated, a long list of capabilities in different software packages, tight deadlines, go the extra mile" and all that shit.

    Then at the end there's some sort of ridiculously low wage package (£6.50-£8.50 ph, dep on exp).

    Does anyone else find this insulting to us and our industry?

    I do and I'm often tempted to fill in the application with a rant telling them that they ought to be *kin ashamed of themselves.

    Rant over. Just saw one this morning and it wound me up,

    NeonThunder likes this.
  2. I think the language companies use in job ads, and the amount they are wiling to pay, is a very good indication of how valued you and your skills are going to be in that position... You can't expect someone to be hugely passionate about a job they don't really know anything about, because passion is largely dependent on the culture of the organisation; so it's really quite pointless even talking about that stuff in a job ad. I just imagine they are going to be a pretty out dated company and a real nightmare to work with, even if it was £30p/h it wouldn't make a huge difference to me.
  3. NeonThunder

    NeonThunder Active Member

    I get random job ads all the time sent to me. keep getting a few calls as well from my linked in profile
  4. scotty

    scotty Well-Known Member

    That's a sad truth Sean. I've worked for a few of them in my time too.

    Funnily enough, the job I blew out in March, they are still advertising for my replacement and saw it again just the other day.

    Feeling smug. :)
    NeonThunder likes this.
  5. GilmoreVisuals

    GilmoreVisuals Active Member

    Wise words my friend.
  6. Jimlad

    Jimlad Well-Known Member

    Never mind just design jobs. I saw an ad once describing commitment to the team, motivation, going the extra blah blah and all that shite. It especially rambled on about being part of a strong team wanting the best for the company and oh blah blah blah.

    Know what the job translated as (I forget the flowery term they gave it)...?


    Then of course there's all the job ads labelled as "Illustration" when in actual fact they want a web designer, 3D animator and a programmer. I HATE those.
  7. This is why people shouldn't jump at the first job they get offered - sure if they're fresh out of college/uni or really need the money, but the interview process should be a two way thing; employees need to know whether their values are the same as what the company values. For me, anything less than absolute customer satisfaction is simply not going to cut it.

    I read an article just now about the planned retail strikes for Black Friday and how franchisee's are under pressure because of dwindling profit margins and I kept hearing the same comments... "We would LOVE to pay our employees more, but we just can't". It turns out that profit margins have been in decline for many years now. If a business (this goes for any industry) can't inspire their customers to spend a reasonable amount on whatever it is you provide, you can't possible accumulate the necessary resources to treat and compensate your employees accordingly. If a business owner knows their profit margins are in decline, year after year, then they need to adapt their business model or recognise that what they do is no longer something that people really want.

    Jim, I have found that a lot of people who write those job ads really are looking for someone who can focus in one particular area, but for some (unknown) reason they decide to ask for a jack of all trades. I see this as a bit of a blessing to be honest, it's quite obvious from the job adverts which companies are going to cause you to lose your hair or suffer a mental breakdown...!

    I used to work at The Co-Operative food. One day I thought I would spend an 8 hour shift giving 150%. I outperformed everyone else working that day, including the managers. Tasks that would normally have taken two hours, I did in one hour, without being sloppy and missing things/ignoring customers. This was first and foremost a test, to see what sort of recognition I would get for quite frankly exhausting myself. I got nothing, and when I mentioned to my supervisor about how much effort I had put in that day, I got a "Well what do you want me to say..? You should be working that hard all the time anyway". It was such an eye-opener. Why would I ever go the extra mile again and how can you become a fan of a company that allows such behaviour in their culture?

    Flowery Term for a cleaner... Sanitation Operative? Hygiene & Wellness Officer?
  8. scotty

    scotty Well-Known Member

    It takes nothing to tell someone that their effort has been appreciated and the rewards from letting a person know this can be priceless.

    I've been in loads of situations like that.

    I once turned up to work at 6am on a big deadline push only to be sat outside in freezing conditions waiting 2 hours for the bosses to turn up.
    I spent the rest of the day working full on, no food, no breaks and at midnight I was the only designer left there and on finally handing over all the design and artwork in Freehand (as requested) and I got the reply:

    "Good, can you now do the same but in Quark?"

    It was almost like they were trying to push me to see what my limits were making pointless changes while they sat in their office drinking coffee and telling me to do it all again was just too much.

    I said to them that I was completely spent and not being a Quark user I couldn't do it and I needed to go home as I had a very young child and a newborn at the time.

    At a later pay review I got the the feeling they were questioning my commitment when I talked about my pay.
    "Well, we all remember the time when you left a project unfinished and went home".

    This was just one of many "FFS" moments I've had with employers.
  9. It's absolutely ridiculous that things like that happen. I wonder if it was a case of them having no idea what was involved in your job, as in assuming that doing it in Quark would be no problem, or if it was purely because they are morons.

    It's no better for apprentices/interns they just get treated as personal assistants that get to do all the crappy jobs a lot of the time. There's so much wrong with business... at least in this information age all of these stories are coming out now, and business owners will either adapt or suffer with a bad reputation. We all just need to get comfortable with naming and shaming now.
  10. Levi

    Levi Moderator Staff Member

    I kind of feel bad for both sides of that argument.

    If you think about it shops in towns are being hit hard by the likes of amazon, just think how often you go I need something at night/during the day and you just check amazon for it, see it's there and then order it rather than bother going into town. Why do you I do it, well it's 2 fold, I have to pay for petrol and parking (which isn't cheap out my way), it would take me a good hour there and back minimum and then I still might not actually find said item.

    The shops in my town also have the issue of Tescos (and Dobbys) and Sainsbury's both having MASSIVE stores both on the outskirts of town with free parking, then there's a large Morrisons too, not to mention the other 2 sainsbury's and tesco stores in town.... (yeah don't know why either, same goes for the 2 next stores). The local council (conservatives... they have no idea as usual) doesn't help matters for the stores, instead of making parking cheaper, they keep putting the prices up, we don't even get free parking late at night or on a Sunday and then there is of course the general overheads of running a store versus a warehouse.

    You could also argue you need more staff in a shop than a warehouse and a warehouse is usually cheaper to rent/run than a shop.

    Having said that I don't mind buying from a shop if the price is within say 5-10% of the online price if I can get it then and there (ie if I'm already out) but then I don't necessarily buy the excuses (cost of transport etc) of the likes of tescos for the ever increasing prices on food... :rolleyes:

    In the 'design industry' clients pretty much want as much as they can get for as little as they can pay.... and then in many cases (not all) expect even more lol
  11. Yeah of course there's all that going on, but why should your employees (in the form of wages) and your customers (in the form of ever increasing prices in Tesco's case..) be punished for a business owners inability to adapt what they do and provide to meet new demands and preferences? This is why so many businesses go bust, because they keep doing the same thing until no one wants to pay for it any more and they are completely out of options - and once they're in that period of decline, they keep coming up with the same old excuses.... "People just don't pay what they used to" How much more of a hint do you need to wake up and change how and/or what you offer as a business!

    It's quite obvious that there is a huge audience for online grocery shopping, and instead of working on that many supermarkets decided to do nothing (co-op) or focus on other things, like Tesco and the scan as you go system which I'm not totally convinced on its success personally... I read an article a while ago that suggesting making the move into intelligent shopping - how many times do you buy the same things, week in week out... It would be quite easy to have a system where you can choose a number of items to be delivered on a recurring basis for example. There were some other great ideas but I've forgotten them now.

    Let's not get in to parking....

    The majority of my clients seem to enjoy spending money with me, I've come across a few penny pinchers but for the most part they are all happy to pay a fair rate. Maybe I'm just getting very lucky..!
  12. Levi

    Levi Moderator Staff Member

    the big businesses are the ones that can adapt, a small company isn't going to be able to dictate the prices it pays for it's goods due to the amount it buys compared to say Tesco's. I'm not saying staff shouldn't get more money but the business (say tescos) is only going to ramp up prices to compensate for it's outaly so it's one of those situations where customers are damned if they do damned if they don't. Economies of scale unfortunately dictate that small companies will always have larger outlay relatively compared with a bigger business.

    As a side note last time I checked most large supermarkets paid above minimum wage to most staff (might have changed since then though)

    In terms of making life easier for people and businesses the government needs to do something because the reason a lot of people aren't buying anything is because they don't have any spare money at the end of the month. They also need to start giving more 'government contracts' to UK businesses rather than outsourcing to EU/China but that's another matter.

    As to issues with clients spending money.... I don't really have any issues either, I give them a price for what they want and they either accept or they don't... they normally accept it though, I'm good value :)
  13. Trying to copy the market leaders, and trying to compete with exactly the same services/products, is not the only option available to a small businesses. Customers can help by supporting the right kind of companies (ones that do care about their staff) with their wallets, instead of always going for the absolute cheapest option, or caring about where they get their shopping from in this case... You could say the same thing about beauty products, animal testing and the rise of skin and health issues as a result of using so many of these products. The end result is not the only thing that matters!

    I can't speak for others, although I heard Tesco used too pay about MW + £1, but co-op always used to be pretty much MW.

    It's easy to say the Government needs to fix all our problems, and leave it at that, but I know a lot of people who never have any money... and it's nothing to do with Government. I think you're probably right about the contracts though.

    I think with the rise of business owners in the past decade, professions such as ours are exposed to lots more people trying to do things on the cheap... or perhaps just lots more people in general, leading to a perceived increase of cheapos!
  14. Levi

    Levi Moderator Staff Member

    Nah you can blame that on "my mates 4year old kid has a copy of photoshop, he says he can do my logo for a packet of crisps... so why are you so expensive" mentality. The easy access to photoshop and 'children of friends' is what's made 'smaller' companies think cheap when it comes to design...
  15. scotty

    scotty Well-Known Member

    You get what you pay for at the end of the day.
    With design, it's all fair enough if you want to pay cheap but you'll just end up looking cheap.

    My friends kid is good with Lego but I wouldn't want them to build my extension.
  16. Don't you think that pretty much implies that no business owners have any concept of value, as if they are blind sheep that have no idea as to the difference between cheap/professional and good/bad. Ultimately it is their choice to turn down the offer of a more expensive professional or not to look for one in the first place. I'm not saying this hasn't contributed to the issue, but I don't think it's the only cause.

    The problem is that creating and maintaining a brand is a fairly new thing, especially for small businesses, who in the past would just have a logo and various other bits done with no discernible consistency or overall strategy in what they want to communicate, so I think a lot of them don't really understand much about marketing and why its important to get it done properly, and don't always necessarily recognise what's good or bad for their business.
  17. Levi

    Levi Moderator Staff Member

    No, I was more thinking along the lines of photoshop being so synonimous with design ('can you photoshop that' is almost as prevalent as 'google it') that businesses don't realise how much training/skill/talent is really required to design, they just think they have the right program so they can also design... a bit like they have word so they can do letters...
    Why not... have you ever tried trying to collapse a massive block of cross weaved lego bricks, seriously they're like the strongest thing ever lol

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