Graphic Design or Communication?

[RTC]

Employed, and work freelance. Not that it has anything to do with this discussion.

So, out of curiosity, do you only employ people who are supposed to be able to do absolutely everything, instead of specialising?

Seems like a cheap way of doing things.

Levi, if you want to talk "high and mighty" mate, perhaps you should be looking in more of Berry's direction... Just an idea.

 

[Levi]

Levi, if you want to talk "high and mighty" mate, perhaps you should be looking in more of Berry's direction... Just an idea.

He's not the one selectively quoting to make himself look right

 

[berry]

I'm always looking at the Future, not just at Now, that's why I've lasted and adapted for so long.

The future belongs to the multi-tasked individual who can do many things. He will never go hungry. The specialist will have to scavange with the pack.

A footballer who can only kick with one foot and play in one position, only defend, but not attack, and can't pass, will find his lack of versitilty limiting and his career very short.

It isn't a cheap way of doing things, it a commercial business way of doing things. And design is a business not Art.

 

[Sunburn]

....

The future belongs to the multi-tasked individual who can do many things. He will never go hungry. The specialist will have to scavange with the pack....

Sorry berry I have to disagree, I specialise only in front end development, I don't get involved with graphics or back-end coding, and I'm constantly busy and my skill set is in very much demand.

As an owner of a creative agency its obvious why you want jack of all trades, they are simply more cost effective and can be moved from job to job as required due to their range of skills, limiting the time when your paying them for just sitting there.

From a purely business perspective there is no negative in that mentality and its im sure been a factor in keeping your company afloat over the years and completely understandable. But, to suggest a specialist cannot complete on the same playing field as a jack of all trades is simply not true. In fact, I would suggest its the opposite, as a specialist I command a greater wage simply for the knowledge and understanding I bring to the table within my chosen field, I often see salaries for a jack of all trades in London at the 18-22k mark, Lets say as a specialist I command considerable more than that! and I'm based in the Midlands.

I suppose at the end of the day it all comes down to who you work for and if your happy to work for a company that doesn't value individuals for what they bring to the company over what the company can take from the individual, as they say you don't get rich working for the man!


Geoff.

 

[Jimlad]

Glad to see not everyone subscribes to the "jack of all trades master of none" mentality that has gripped the industry in recent years.

 

[Dave1975]

The future belongs to the multi-tasked individual who can do many things. He will never go hungry. The specialist will have to scavange with the pack.

Disagree, the nature of supply and demand dictates that a true specialist will always have demand, it's what comes with the experience and skillset thats tailored to one specific role. For example, suggesting that a multi-tasked indivudal who can design websites and then code the front-end and back-end of sites, and write the copy, and photograph the products, is flawed, there's no way they will be able to keep up-to-date on trends, standards and quality of work on all disciplines constantly. I've learnt basic front-end coding so I understand how websites work when it comes to development, and if pushed I could code a basic site, but that doesn't mean I do, it makes more sense commercially to outsource it to someone who can do a better job, and a more efficient job than me.

A footballer who can only kick with one foot and play in one position, only defend, but not attack, and can't pass, will find his lack of versitilty limiting and his career very short.

Any footballer who can't pass WILL have a very short career (besides a few miscellaneous examples!)
How many top level football players, play in more than one or two positions? Going back to the comparison it's like suggesting that you would need to be able to play as a striker, goalkeeper, physio, coach, mascot and supporter, everything but the chairman!!

It isn't a cheap way of doing things, it a commercial business way of doing things. And design is a business not Art.

I understand the commercial aspects of needing people to be multi-skilled, but I think the issue is the influx and popularity of freelancers, and the improved methods of online communication. Today I can work with other freelancers (specialists in their fields) to put projects together, heck even savvy clients can put specialists (elements) together to save cash. Many years ago I imagine any freelancers would have had to rely more heavily on agencies for their work, these days clients use freelancers direct to save on agency overheads.

 

[ansteydesign]

Graphic Communication is the same as Graphic Design... GC just encompasses all the different media's - print (yes Berry), photography, web and video and how we communicate through them.

Learning how to code might be something that is a bit more desirable these days but lets face it if you want to be a graphic designer you are hardly going to be the world's greatest coder. It's far better to learn how to be a designer and then get a basic grasp of coding. You can then use a software package (such a dreamweaver) to develop more advanced designs (or employ a pure coder).

But print is far from dead... true there has been an increase in web design work but it's still a 60/40 split to print.

 

[Aarlev]

Interesting debate here. I'll have to agree with Berry. I still believe there is room for specialists, but particularly in web (and perhaps in agencies more so than for freelancers) I think it's becoming more and more important to have at least basic coding skills, and be familiar with how a content management system works. When I first started in the agency I work for now, the lead designer had never touched any code, but was recently told to learn HTML, CSS and Wordpress.

I already wear many hats everyday as a Web Designer. I've done digital artwork, illustration, logo design, brochure design, and all sorts of stuff not directly related to Web Design. I also code small to medium sites and implement them in either Wordpress or inhouse CMS. My focus is on Web and interactive Design and that's what I'm best at, but I think that being able to cross over into other fields will give you a big advantage when it comes to job prospects.

Of course it has to be within reason, and I'd never start doing 3D Design or PHP coding. That's too far from my field. But If you can design for print you can learn how to design for web and vice versa. Basic design principles apply to both. And CSS/HTML is not rocket science, so yeah, learn to code!

 

[erichmond]

Jack of all trades and master of none! Is something that has already been said here.

There is a danger that spreading yourself to thinly will just cheapen the whole operation, there is more value in the long run to employ key skill sets, if the foundation are cheap and weak the whole freakin building will collapse eventually!!

 

[Aarlev]

Jack of all trades and master of none! Is something that has already been said here.

There is a danger that spreading yourself to thinly will just cheapen the whole operation, there is more value in the long run to employ key skill sets, if the foundation are cheap and weak the whole freakin building will collapse eventually!!

I think you can be a master of more than one trade. And if you're already a good designer, then learning how to code is not going to make you any worse at designing, but just add to your skill set instead. If I had to employ someone and had a choice of 2 people who were equally good at design, but one of them had coding skills, I'd employ the one with coding skills.

Jack of some trades, master of some?

 

[Levi]

I'd say it's more to do with the level of proficiency in each field. In my example of the way design is heading, ie web based magazines for slates etc, you wouldn't need too many skills outside code, it's all mainy photoshop work, cropping, bit of colour alteration, maybe a bit of fancy touchup or liquify filter in some cases. The old requirements of indesign for layout/print are completely unnecessary due to it being code based. So what's better for the company, a person that can code and then just needs to be trained on the basics of photoshop or a person that needs to be trained how to code - I know which way I'd prefer.

Now it probably won't happen overnight with adobe introducing new apps for conversion but as we know with dreamweaver, the automatic code is bloated and untidy at best and ultimately anyone heading that way will go straight for a coder over a non coder.

As to jack of all trades... I have to work with area's that would in erichmond's view make me a jack of all trades. In my cad work post processing of images is done in photoshop, I also have to work with video editing when doing animations, and I have to obviously understand my cad software. Does this make me a jack of all trades or just someone who can take the job from start to finish? For the record I see it as the latter, why spread work over 3 people when 1 can do it, that 1 person knows the project, probably the client and also knows what the 'person in the chain' before is expecting from him without needing to go back and check..

I can even do (basic) web design including code so you know diversity isn't necessarily a bad thing, now I wouldn't advertise for web design work, I'm not good enough on things like cms but I can happily look after and update (eventually) my own site.

 

[erichmond]

the origin of this thread was something to do with 'prospects in graphic communication'

ffs! nothing to do with what, how, who is better at whatever!!

some of the most creative designers I ever met are dyslexic for crying out loud!!

Do the wish to code NO! Do they have valuable talent YES!

some of the best web developers are socially inept geeks (who I love btw)

Can they draw NO....! Well not always!

If a graduate wants to start in graphic communication because they are interested in it then so be it! If it takes them down the path of web development fine, if it takes them down the path of fine illustration then fine! If they end up freakin 60 years old running a design agency slagging off freelancers and throwing talented people on the scrap heap because they can only draw then fine!

But to think there are no prospects in Graphic Communication is down right arrogant and bloody narrow minded!

 

[Aarlev]

But to think there are no prospects in Graphic Communication is down right arrogant and bloody narrow minded!

No need to start throwing insults. We're just having a debate here. Everyone is entitled to their opinion.

 

[Levi]

the origin of this thread was something to do with 'prospects in graphic communication'

ffs! nothing to do with what, how, who is better at whatever!!

some of the most creative designers I ever met are dyslexic for crying out loud!!

Do the wish to code NO! Do they have valuable talent YES!

some of the best web developers are socially inept geeks (who I love btw)

Can they draw NO....! Well not always!

If a graduate wants to start in graphic communication because they are interested in it then so be it! If it takes them down the path of web development fine, if it takes them down the path of fine illustration then fine! If they end up freakin 60 years old running a design agency slagging off freelancers and throwing talented people on the scrap heap because they can only draw then fine!

But to think there are no prospects in Graphic Communication is down right arrogant and bloody narrow minded!

As we've said earlier in the thread part of the question was regarding which had the best prospects for a job. Some of us have said that it was better to head into coding

My last response was in regards to your jack of all trades comment, clearly you don't like the idea of a rational discussion so has just taken to replying with what is little more than insults, rather than coming back with anything useful .

By the way, there has been no mention of anyone saying they're better than anyone else, we've said about individual skills that we use during work to help in our discussions/arguement.

Also we don't know if the op has talent or not, we have not seen their work, so our discussion is purely based on the hypothetical nature of the question, they never said they wouldn't be willing to go into an alternative field either.

And what has dyslexia got to do with the topic at hand, dyslexia is only a problem to those who make it one, I should know

 

[mick_mccabe]

cant we all just get along.lol

 

[mcskillz]

It's these bloody argumentative English types Mick…………

*can open, worms… everywhere.



Just joking my friends over the wall

 

[mick_mccabe]

the phrase "easy lionel" comes to mind mate.lol

 

[erichmond]

As we've said earlier in the thread part of the question was regarding which had the best prospects for a job. Some of us have said that it was better to head into coding

If you are interested in coding of course (nod)

My last response was in regards to your jack of all trades comment, clearly you don't like the idea of a rational discussion so has just taken to replying with what is little more than insults, rather than coming back with anything useful .

Who's being insulting now ... oh btw my apologies to anyone feeling insulted by my opinion, I'm hoping that anyone thinking about studying graphic design might take something positive away from my comments.

And what has dyslexia got to do with the topic at hand, dyslexia is only a problem to those who make it one, I should know

What has football got to do with it? And who said dyslexia was a problem?

 

[davewill]

As to jack of all trades... I have to work with area's that would in erichmond's view make me a jack of all trades. In my cad work post processing of images is done in photoshop, I also have to work with video editing when doing animations, and I have to obviously understand my cad software. Does this make me a jack of all trades or just someone who can take the job from start to finish?

I think the earlier comment made by Aarlev ' Jack of some trades, master of some?' is spot on.

This is nothing personal against you Levi, (just using you as the example based on your last post) You may be able to use photoshop during your design process but Im sure you would admit there are photoshoppers out there who can do things using that software that most of us can only dream of. I think your example shows you are proficient in taking a job from start to finish but that doesnt make you a jack of all trades.

In my opinion, a jack of all trades is someone who is equally as skilled in every aspect of their work. If I was to score myself out of 10 for the work I do id say something like "Graphic Design - 8/10, Illustration - 6/10, Typography - 6/10, Web Design - 1/10 etc) Just because I do all those things on a regular basis doesnt mean Im a jack of all trades. Im a graphic designer. Just sometimes I do other stuff. Im stronger in some areas than I am others.

I agree with the guys here who say the multi-skilled will be more appealing to employers, of course they will, better value for money, but I do think there is still room in the industry for highly skilled designers who specialise in 1 or 2 fields.
I wish I could learn web design, but Im so busy building on my graphic design skills I never have the time to get involved in other disciplines!

 

[Levi]

Who's being insulting now ... oh btw my apologies to anyone feeling insulted by my opinion, I'm hoping that anyone thinking about studying graphic design might take something positive away from my comments.

it wasn't the opinion that was the problem it was the way in which it was worded, no one else has felt the need to use ffs for example. Your post came across as a rant at people not at the topic.

What has football got to do with it? And who said dyslexia was a problem?

I was saying that dyslexia didn't need to brought into the topic as it had no relevance.

Davewill, I'll admit, I'm not a photoshop painter (you know the sort) but I've been trained in graphic design prior to going to uni and then my chosen field of cad so I've got a fairly good grasp of the program too, you'd also be surprised at what's needed at times for my work.