Desperate client who are trying to resucitate their business

[Sunburn]

@ Chris, there may not be a black and white answer but there sure is an ethical non ethical argument to be made.

For me there are two camps on this, those of whom want to do things the ethical way and build up SERPS in an organic and social manner, and those who risk take with businesses and don't care how they are perceived by those in the know by opting for spam-yy quick to achieve solution.

Ultimately, the responsibility is with the search engines imho, if they practised what they preached with keyword stuffed websites & age old link wheels and actively sought out and remove such sites from their listings, then such sites provided by NWD in this thread would not rank or be indexed, however that is not the case. As pointed out earlier by NWD. So really as a buisness/seo service provider you have to ask yourself which system suits your business objectives/client, budget, and expectations/risks

Its this lack of action by the major search engines that cause me to consider both methods for SEO/CO in the sense that if you take a typical and 99% certain business objective to make money as the driving point of optimisation in the following example; ill try to make my point.

Ethical Optimisation For a Business
Business sells 1 product per week at £100
Doesn't rank highly in the search result.
Embarks on a SEO campaign, building great content, linking in and out of respected neighbourhoods, taking months if not years to mature
Over the years said company slowly improves in the search results and after several years has made it to #one
Gets 100 sales per week at £100 per avg. sale

Non Ethical Optimisation for Business
Business sells 100 products per week @ £100 due to large volume of traffic to site and being quickly listed top of the search results.
May or May not ever get banned.

As a business owner, with uncertain markets and having to pay some one to optimise your results, does ethics really play a part? whilst the ethical company will mature in the long term the non ethical one is making MONEY! ...

That for me is a real problem. And whilst the Search Engines do nothing to police their own indexes, I can appreciate and understand NWDs position.

 

[Jazajay]

@All
Hay I'm Mario, all ready claimed.

@NWD
As norm none of my many questions have been answered. But hay I'll give up trying to get you to give answers you can't give.

The last post was so long as I was ripping yours apart so it needed to be long.
Again read all of yours.

You may not be impressed, not fussed either way, dear lord why should I? :lol:
But you said give an example, that's the one I can give, as you say professionalism, otherwise I could give you tonnes or company ones.

3 simple questions, so even you should answer these.

1) Show me sites where you have multiple top 3 organic rankings for individual terms with out keyword spamming?
2) A site you have done that has site links?
3) Explain why you think the alt attribute is far more powerful than the H1 tag?

Simple.

Wont even bother ripping the rest of your argument apart, due to alcohol and girlfriend dumping tonight. :clap:

Plus there is a film on in 40mins I want to watch.

@Sunburn.
Personally done right CRO can bring pretty quick results, bare in mind it contains SEO, that's a part of it. We (Company) had a site launch in December 10, SEO wise has it's market nailed all it's boots are number 1, categories, main key term etc.. can't say we've done much offsite promotion but it's like my dads, follows the same theory, get trust in the engines, keep it related and good for the user, and stick a page on or new boot and wella hits the top of the results in no time. Averages about 1000 hits a week, which isn't bad for a site that's less than a year old, eCommerce and has competitors such as Amazon and with us taking a cut of the profits for a maintenance contract.

Pandas being updated again this year and it's currently taking spelling and quality and length of articles in to account, this update may see more updates that combat that sort of thing. But long term not for me ethically I wont screw a client over for short term gain for them. Because if/or more than likely when they get banned it will cost them more to get back up when a ethical company takes it over due to them losing trust.

If anyone has a budget that is that small, maybe they should be asking themselves if they are charging enough in the first place?

But regardless of what technique you use/rip your client off in the long term, not that I am saying you are at all, you should still try to optimize the site for the user, that's just common sense surly?

And you can charge more as you can explain I have this service or I have this service where i do all of this but I also do....then add a 3rd service in that's way over the top and the Goldilocks effect, in marketing terms kicks in, meaning most people will chose option number 2.

Bottom one is too cheap, top on is too expensive, middle one just right.

Why do you think air lines charge 5 times more for their top of the range seats over economy. Value for money thus people chose first, business what ever name it is, second seat option, same marketing principle anyway as the goal is to get people to chose option 2 over option 1 or 3.

Sorry dude busy couple of days, women i tell ya, will read your PM, promise.

@Chris
Where is Berry these days still too busy making millions?