Desperate client who are trying to resucitate their business

Just to add, that publishing on the Internet business information about one of your customers when you've named that customer could be regarded as a breach of confidentiality.

It's certainly ethically dubious.

You've published what that business is paying their staff for example.

Do you have the permission of the business to publish that information on the Internet?

If it was MY business I would not be happy.

Very unprofessional.
 
O dear lord, df should really have a bang head on wall button.
1st off this teacher pupil relationship is not going to work if the pupil doesn't even understand where he is going wrong because he doesn't read the areas where he is going wrong. Again I notice all my questions to you where missed out, proof is defo in the pudding that is for sure. Would love to hear those answers by the way, again. :)

But the reason they where so long is, 1 in general I do long posts on DF it helps the person with the problem understand where they are going wrong and because your argument is so flawed I could quite easily rip it to shreds as I have done multiple times now.

Right as your attention spam is somewhat limited I'll try and keep this one, o a fly, what was I on about, aww yes short. :)

Again just to note I read all your responses, regardless of what i thought.

The window cleaning website though, bearing in mind that they didn't have a website before, if the business didn't expand after getting a website, then there would be something seriously wrong.
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I totally agree and as i have said many times now that is down to conversion rate optimization (OF WHICH SEO IS PART OF). SEO has nothing to do with customers buying or contacting the customer.

But you really have just contradicted your self a lot.
All my websites generate business for my customers, that's what the website is for
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Well thats not correct actually there are loads of reasons on having a website.
One of my customers moved from a home-based business into offices and took on more consultants after they got a website because of the increase in business. Some of my other customers rely almost totally on their websites to provide them with an income.
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Well that has nothing to do with SEO. That's conversion rate optimization if done intentionally, or in your case accidentally.
So that's normal, I would expect that.
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Another question, prove it?
I can and I tell you now that is far from normal.

For the Rogerneedle comments thank you very much, background:
Father'scompany, yes i do and it's pro bono which means its not going to be perfect due to the amount of hours i spend on it for free and paid work i have on, which is a shame as I have many examples I could rip but as you say professionalism prevents me, so I don't share them, this is different. You asked for an example and that's one I can give. I answered your question unlike the numerous questions you have left unanswered. :)

I notice the area that Roger Needle operates in for commercial and retail wondow cleaning goes beyond the Sutton Coldfield area and into West Brom and Dudley.

At the moment they are nowhere to be found on Google for:

window cleaning dudley
window cleaning west bromwich
commercial window cleaning dudley
commercial window cleaning west bromwich

They should be there on page 1.
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Wow you managed to find a few terms that they don't. Actually that is debatable if they need to. If most people in Dudley search for Birmingham no they don't for example.

But here is some terms for you which are way more important than that
Google

Top 2 organics

Google
Position 1 with local listing combined

Google

Only updated the website yesterday, HTML changes only done yesterday.

Already position 1. The new page will probably hit more when that gets changed.

Google

Again only updated HTML yesterday all ready position 2.

Google

Top 3 organics
Google

Again top 3 organics

Google

Site links

Bare in mind they are just the main ones of the top of my head, not even including the others. But I only updated the site yesterday with the Solar panel changes, That is HTML changes only and the sites all ready returned to the top of those new results, which TBH will bring far better business than the minor results you picked out.

Listing all those towns/areas at the bottom of the page is a mistake.
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Dear lord. not done for the search engines. Conversion optimization remember, What does disability best practice say about map images with locations in?
That is another question that I would like to be answered but I know wont. :)

You're diluting your keywords doing that and anyway some of them are spelt incorrectly.
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No, really. Again that page is not for the search engines. The site is not built for them. It's built for the user. Brick wall button would be great right now.
It's a page that shows the users where his rough area of work is, ie catchment area so they will have a rough guide to if they cover their area before contacting. The places listed are for people with disabilities, IE so they know where he works. :lol:

In fact, you need to check out all the spelling errors on that website, there are a lot,
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Thanks will have a look and fix them. It's a pro bono site that I don't get paid for and have spent hundreds of hours on. Attention to detail as a result probably has been lacking so that's a fair comment and I totally agree with you. :)

and you shouldn't underline text that isn't a link, it's bad practice and confuses visitors
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Again I will happily agree with you, and I have been thinking that personally. But I take the underline out and to a user it doesn't make it so obvious so I have decided to break that one convention for the following reasons:

1) Site links are blue and not underlined.
2) The context that it is in.

But that is intentional and I am aware of that conversion rate theory. :)
If you're charging a customer for a professional service then you need to provide that professional service, which you're not if the website has spelling errors.
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I am not its pro bono and as i have all ready said in that area I will admit I could do with picking the ball up. That said I have done a lot of hours for nothing no financial reward as he is my father and TBH the return he has got from it as a result misses the old spelling mistake, intentional, or otherwise as not all are mistakes. :D

Actually I disagree it's unprofessional listing it as I say it's more my baby. What I think is unprofessional is charging people to lob traffic at their sites via SEO that won't do anything as the conversion rate is poor. A bucket may gush water when filled so what do you do for the client when they ask you to help stop the flow of water from the bucket?

Fix the holes or get a bigger bucket with the same holes in?

Personally, this is conversion rate optimization, you do both for the client not one or the other.

Hope this is not so long for you. :)
 
Jaz, spelling mistakes happen even if you're being paid, I wouldn't be that over critical about it.

On my graphic work I normally state that I want the client to look it over and check to make sure I haven't missed anything before it gets 'signed off'. Technically we're designers/coders not copywriters (I would expect perfection from these) and so we do sometimes makes errors which can go under the radar when there's a lot of text.

It's not like you can't fix it now it's been highlighted :)

And what happened, I want the mini essays back, even the original posts in here have been short for you :p
 
@Levi

TBH that was a fair comment, its a good job he didn't find any BLACK HAT, granted I don't use it. But we'll get to that in a min. The
few text misspellings that I have found should now have been fixed. So honestly all good and valid point in my eyes.

@Sunburn

If I am honest I wouldn't be worried about any keyword density he is trying to hit, To me it would be how he is possibly screwing his
client over using black hat techniques I would be more worried about, wont even go into the fact he is still using the keyword tag,
which yahoo! the last one to use it in any way drop about 5 years back.

I never use black hat but if I was it would be harder to spot than his and I would go the mosaic cloaking route, I don't as there is no
point in getting traffic to your site when the terms are not on the page the user will expect them and if they are not then they wont
stay. If he had it wouldn't of taken me all of 1 min to spot what he is doing.

TBF I only looked due to your comment as I'm not in the need for tit for tat.

But if you or anyone else can explain to me how this picture has the following text visible in it?

http://www.westiesinneed.co.uk/West_Highland_White_Terrier_1.jpg

Westies In Need West Highland White Terrier Rescue and Rehoming

Or this image:

http://www.westiesinneed.co.uk/logo_3.jpg

Which has the following alt text:

Westies In Need West Highland White Terrier Rescue and Rehoming

Or TBH 20 odd others either I would be very grateful as my eyes appear to be going, as that text is not in those images.

Also what amuses me is he doesn't think the H1 has any SEO value clearly thinks a lot differently about the alt attribute however,
that's a bit backwards if I'm honest.

Those are decorative images and thus should have a blank alt attribute to follow search engines, but way more important and what I would do it for, people with disabilities best practise.

In fact I would put money on if I submitted that site for a site review right now it wouldn't be long before it had a penalty against it thus losing those results.

I mean jease if only I know the url to do that, cough:

https://www.google.com/webmasters/tools/spamreportform?hl=en

Now lets see what does Google say about hidden text:

If your site is perceived to contain hidden text and links that are deceptive in intent, your site may be removed from the Google index, and will not appear in search results pages. When evaluating your site to see if it includes hidden text or links, look for anything that's not easily viewable by visitors of your site. Are any text or links there solely for search engines rather than visitors?
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Going to love to see how that is readable by humans when it is in an alt text on a decorative image.

I mean there is putting text so small blue on blue (Most people wont see that even though it is technically visible) and severing one content to a user in this case an image, and TBH many, many more decorative images of dogs and another to the search engines. In this case the text:

Westies In Need West Highland White Terrier Rescue and Rehoming

Think that's called a technique called cloaking. Long term SEO that will do more harm to his client than good. But hay I'm unprofessional for having a few misspelling/answering his question with a real world site example.

Proof is defiantly in the pudding that is all I can say. :D

Honestly though NWD thanks for pointing the misspellings out, good catch, fixed now. I appreciate it and I am being sincere.

TBF I wouldn't have been so sarcastic if you hadn't of mentioned you hadn't read my posts in a joking way. Its just curtsy to read others post, even if you don't agree in my eyes. :)
 
@Sunburn
O I know, because you know better hence your post, mine however wasn't. :D

@MRP and Chris
I like to think of it more as the super Mario brothers, with me being Mario, now who's King Kuppa? :lol:
 
I'll be yoshi then :p

Yoshi (ヨッシー Yosshī?, sometimes romanized Yossy in earlier Japanese materials)[2][3] (IPA: /ˈjoʊʃi/), is a fictional dinosaur-like character who appears in video games published by Nintendo.[4] His debut was in Super Mario World (1990) on the Super Nintendo Entertainment System[5] as Mario and Luigi's sidekick (a role he has often reprised), and he later established his own series with several platform and puzzle games, including Super Mario World 2: Yoshi's Island. He has also appeared in many of the spin-off Mario games including the Mario Party, the Mario Kart, and the Super Smash Bros. series, as well as in other various Mario sports titles. Yoshi also appears in New Super Mario Bros. Wii (2009) as the characters' companion and steed, similar to his original debut role in Super Mario World.[6] As with the names of several other characters in the Mario series, Yoshi is a common part of Japanese names (e.g., Yoshida, Kiyoshi, etc.). Yoshis come in many different colors, though the original and most common color is green.[5] Yoshi's most recent appearance is in Mario Sports Mix (2010).[7]
 
@Jazajay

Sorry I'm not very impressed with those search results you've linked to.

The company is in Birmingham, so getting the website onto page 1 for something like:

cladding cleaning companies in birmingham

- is no great shakes.

I would expect a website not even properly optimised to manage that, with Google's help at "making allowances".

I have websites on page 1 for searches that *exclude* a geographical area, so you can't expect me to be impressed.

As for "cloaking" LOL . . . . . bless ;)

I'd explain but you wouldn't listen so I won't waste my time ;)

Didn't read everything, far too long as usual :)
 
Catty ????

I think you might be a little oversensitive ;)

I just state facts.

I don't ramble on to trying to impress. I don't need to.

I'm successful at what I do and I will quietly continue to do it.

If no-one wants to listen to me, it's no skin off my nose :)
 
Now I'll admit I'm no expert when it comes to seo but one thing I do know that when I look at your own site you've got a load of 'search engine' only text (in a shade of grey some with poorly configured monitors would miss) while Jaz's site is a website for the user....

I know which one I'd prefer to have if it's still getting the conversion rates that get me work......... and it's not the one that's relying on the 'word count' aspect of seo, it just looks messy.

It's also funny that the sites that you've listed on here also have linking from your site for any visitors to go look at the 'search results'. Most people who visit your site and then look at the sites 'google ranking' bit will click onto the named site out of curiosity, it's human nature 101. This would also help the sites seo ranking as last time I checked click through from google is a ranking factor. Jaz hasn't used this technique as far as I know as last time I checked he didn't have his own site....
 
Anyone who can question Jazz (of all people) without reading his response, doesn't have a leg stand on.
 
Levi does touch on an important point here. Although this is an SEO dominated thread (with a sprinkle of ego), you have to strike a balance between optimisation and user interaction / design. Looks like you'll just have to agree to disagree... As far as I'm aware, there is no black and white answer, just preferred methods.
 
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