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Advice on a job proposal, please.

Discussion in 'General Business Forum:' started by Maria Antoniadi, Apr 20, 2017.

  1. Maria Antoniadi

    Maria Antoniadi New Member

    Hello fellow designers. Nice to find you and I hope we get to know each other.
    I am new to this forum and in UK in general. I am currently working as a freelancer with some clients, however, I am also looking for a permanent job.
    So today a recruiter called me to tell me she has found a good much and that a company needs someone permanent ASAP.
    The job description did not look like a Junior position to me, the salary though fitted perfectly. However, due to lack of experience in London and UK, in general, I would like to ask you your opinion.

    I have asked her to send me a job description and a link to the company's website.
    She hasn't sent me the company (which is understandable to a point, as all the other recruiters do send the company's details), she wasn't able to answer about the reasons they ask for someone asap and additionally, even though I have 10 years of experience, the job is for a Junior designer, for London, 20.000/per year.

    I am copy - pasting the job description, and I would like to ask you your opinion. Does it seem to you that they ask too much for the salary or is it just me?
    Is it also standard for a recruiter to refuse to give you details of the company?
    Does it make you feel a bit suspicious when they can't explain the reasons for an ASAP opening or is it just me?

    I am sorry for the long post and thank you in advance for taking the time (if) to read and help me.

    Required Skills:
    Our client is looking for a creatively-driven and passionate junior designer to join their
    dynamic marketing team. You will be experienced in graphic, print, digital and in various
    creative and technical softwares. 1 year office experience is a must

    Skill Range:
     A passion for design and creativity
     Strong knowledge of Indesign/Illustrator/Photoshop/ After Effects software
     Experience in creating graphic, print & digital design assets
     Experience in proofing, sizing, design layout and kerning
     Web design/ WordPress knowledge
     Mac literate
     Kowledge of artwork to print processes
     An eye for photography & videography
     Experience working in an office environment
     Ability to work well under pressure and to tight deadlines
     Self-motivated and enthusiastic
     Strong attention to detail and accuracy
     Work well in a team with good interpersonal and communication skills
     Technical web support
     Knowledge of SEO and HTML
     Knowledge of iMovie
     
  2. Paul Murray

    Paul Murray Moderator Staff Member

    I would imagine it's pretty standard for a recruiter not to reveal the name of their client until the absolutely have to, otherwise you could just approach them directly and cut out the recruitment firm. The reason for needing someone ASAP could simply be because the company in question is busy, or has a project looming that they need to be full-capacity for, or someone who was doing that role just quit at short notice. They may be a startup looking to expand quickly due to funding or investment. Or it could just be that the recruiters said they need someone ASAP so they can fill the position and get paid sooner. There's any number of reasons really.

    I'm pretty out of touch with what employers look for in a junior nowadays in terms of skills, though a lot of what's listed there is pretty standard stuff I'd probably expect graduates to at least have experience in. I think the days of just doing X, or Y as a designer are gone and it's quite common now to expect graduates and juniors to know a little code and such-like. £20k a year does seem quite low for London living prices, but I'm northern so everything looks expensive to me. I've seen junior roles advertised in Manchester for £20k, maybe have a search around and see what the average wage is in London for a junior. It could be that the Manchester salary was just above average for the region.

    The question is, will you be happy doing a junior role with junior pay when you have 10 years experience? I probably wouldn't, but I guess you could always take the role and quit if it's shit. Probably not a good way to make an impression, but I've been self-employed for so long I don't really know what the etiquette is anymore. :p
     
  3. Maria Antoniadi

    Maria Antoniadi New Member

    Hi Paul. Thank you for your answer. to be honest I regected the offer as I try to work with transparent companies. I wouldnt accept a junior position unless it was in a subject I didnt know or it was in a huge studio. Ofcourse there are a number of reasons for someone wanting a gr.designer asap but usualy they share the reasons when they claim to be a big company.

    With a quick look, a typical designer that takes 22.000 in wilmslow needs to have those skills.
    • Design websites (Photoshop skills required)
    • Landing pages (Photoshop)
    • Prototypes & Mock Ups (Adobe XD)
    • Logos (InDesign, Illustrator etc.)
    • Optimise images, create graphics and other UI elements for web pages and apps
    a typical junior gr.designer in london with 22.000 needs to have those skills.
    • Excellent digital and print knowledge
    • Strong typographic skills
    • They will be well versed in current software, specifically Adobe Photoshop, Illustrator, InDesign, Dreamweaver and Animate
    • You must be self-motivated and be a team player
    Notice that from juniors nobody asks to be experienced in photography and video shooting, seo, html/css, java script for technical support, after effects,wordpress, typography, and get payed only 20.000 for central london.

    The majority of ads for juniors don't even mention particular softwares except photoshop, illustrator, indesign + an understanding of either video editing softwares or dreamweaver, html etc.

    I mean I do have these skills with the exception of the javascript but certenly did not get them in one year in the market and I do charge alot more.
    They actualy give £8.06 per hour. You would charge as little as they ask for any job at all even if you were Junior; Even as a waitress I was taking more due to the tips.
     
  4. scotty

    scotty Well-Known Member

    I'd say that's a pretty broad skill set to expect from a junior designer.
    "The moon on a stick" springs to mind. ;)

    I can't really imagine how someone could be proficient in all those even at a much higher level.
     
    Maria Antoniadi likes this.
  5. Maria Antoniadi

    Maria Antoniadi New Member

    Thank you for your answer scotty. I totally agree. But a second opinion is always helpful. I can't imagine a gr. designer to be able to handle cameras as a professional camera man or/and photographer.
    Same goes for development.I hope they realize that either they don't know what their asking or they should pay a lot more if they want a professional result.
     
  6. scotty

    scotty Well-Known Member

    There are SO many facets to design now.
    Enough for specialists to exist.
    I just can't even imagine someone being able to do all that they are asking and really doubt that if they could that they'd be able to do it well.

    I think some recruiters just ask what their 'ideal candidate' would be.
    It's a bit like asking what a persons ideal car would be.
    Most would say she sort of super-car and I doubt few would say a Vauxhall Astra.
    (not that there's anything wrong with them) ;)

    I think it's just lack of knowledge with the recruiter side.
    They seem to promise both parties the earth.

    I once had a recruiter contact me saying "Yeah, I'm really in with this company called The Designers Republic and I can see a chair with your name on it". (sales speak)

    I had to chuckle to myself as TDR had closed over a year before. o_O

    Fact is, most recruiters are full of shit. :D
     
  7. Paul Murray

    Paul Murray Moderator Staff Member

    Thing is, especially in London, there probably is someone with those skills who will happily take the £20k because of the industry being so competitive. It's why unpaid work, sorry, I meant placements, are standard in a lot of industries, especially media and fashion. If you won't do it, someone else will.
     
  8. Levi

    Levi Moderator Staff Member

    Opinions stuck on the end of each bit

     A passion for design and creativity - a given for a designer really... or more accurately it SHOULD be but then we all know how our trade is being devalued due to 'distant family members etc'

     Strong knowledge of Indesign/Illustrator/Photoshop/ After Effects software - so basically adobe cloud then

     Experience in creating graphic, print & digital design assets - sounds like they want a jack of all trades

     Experience in proofing, sizing, design layout and kerning - graphic design

     Web design/ WordPress knowledge - web design

     Mac literate - must use macs in the office

     Kowledge of artwork to print processes - graphic design and kind of standard expectations for that

     An eye for photography & videography - product photography/video maybe. To be honest this aspect could be huge or it could just be knowing what looks good in a photo/video.

     Experience working in an office environment - onsite job then

     Ability to work well under pressure and to tight deadlines - short turn around, late night type jobs, expected to work on weekends to hit deadlines

     Self-motivated and enthusiastic - wants someone who is willing to work extra hours without getting paid

     Strong attention to detail and accuracy - great if there's time but doesn't exactly work well with tight deadlines...

     Work well in a team with good interpersonal and communication skills - boss will tell you what to do all day long while looking over your shoulder

     Technical web support - dealing with clients who 'break their editable website' or don't know how to fix their computers internet connection

     Knowledge of SEO and HTML - this is an entire skillset in it's own right...

     Knowledge of iMovie - likely to edit movies for websites but could be anything relating to videos including preparing for presentations.


    SO basically they want a graphic designer with knowledge of producing magazines/books etc but they also know how to make moving graphics, edit videos, build websites and ensure they can stay at the top of google search results.... yeah that's a graphic designer these days....

    The funny thing is I suppose a lot of tech savvy graphic design people do actually know how to do all this to some level, the issue is what level does the client expect and is it really just a graphic design job when you start going into movies and web development. Personally I'd say no. I know I can do pretty much all on that list, but I don't offer them as a service to my clients because they're not at a level I would feel happy charging for.
     
  9. scotty

    scotty Well-Known Member

    Nice translation job @Levi :D
     
  10. hankscorpio

    hankscorpio Moderator Staff Member



    22.000 -
    Design websites (photoshop skills required) - What does that even mean?
    Landing pages (photoshop) - fair enough
    Prototypes & mock Ups (Adobe XD) - as far as I'm aware XD is in Beta - shouldn't really be using Beta apps to create things
    Logos (InDesign, Illustrator etc.) eh - please do not create logos in InDesign!!!
    Optimise images, create graphics and othe UI elements for web pages and apps (funny this one didn't mention PS and Illy???)

    a typical junior designer in London (for some reason)
    Excellent digital and print knowledge (as a Junior you shouldn't be required to have excellent knowledge of anything)
    Strong typographic skills - (you wouldn't need strong skills for a junior role)
    Versed in software PS, Illy, InDesign, Dreamweaver and Animate (very specific to include Animate here??? Animate is relatively new so how a junior would be well versed in that?)
    Self-motivated and team player - bog standard for any job.
     
    Paul Murray likes this.

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