Logo required for start up B2B research agency

[Ian Bonner]

When I set-up my business, my accountant, printer or office supplier didn't care that I was a new start-up. They all had fees that I could either pay or I'd have to look elsewhere.?

Great point well made. My business is insured. I still pay premium insurance. I still pay my accountants hourly rate. I still pay what my printer asks. So why should I quote less to get a job?

It happens all too often. I understand that as a start-up it's tough, but it's just as tough for a design start-up and I wouldn't have dreamed of asking any of the examples I listed above to lower their rates.

It's just a case of getting on with it. You have to find ways round to pay the bills. It's like the old credit card chestnut, if you cant pay for it, then don't buy it. Same applies.

[Ian Bonner]

I don't know what the solution is - anyone have any suggestions?

Yeah I've got one. Stop being so tight and pay what we deserve.

Why should we have to look for a different solution? No-one else in their right mind would. My family and bills are just as important to me as theres are to them.

[Ian Bonner]

ultimitley it's the fault of the designers or 'designers' who do the work and undersell themselves and devalue the industry.

I agree with this to a certain extent. It IS down to designers who do work and undersell themselves but it also isn't the fault of the designers who, like us, constantly say 'DO NOT UNDERSELL YOURSELF'.

We know that this will in time bite us on the arse, and this is another example where exactly that is happening.

I've said on here a few times 'If you value what you and we do, DO NOT apply to this request' but it keeps on happening. It is 'designers' that apply to every request for 'a job for nothing' that are putting us in this position. If we all just said 'NO...pay us what we ask' then they would have to.

[sthomas]

Cheers for your comments on this Ian...it's good to hear that there are other designers on this board who don't mind saying what we've all been thinking.

[Ian Bonner]

I can understand it's hard for startups. We've all been there, but the client has one of two options:

Option 1) Go to a budget design 'shop'. Give them a 'brief' in the morning, pay 30 pounds, pick up your identity / artwork in the afternoon. Save yourself money and help the 'limited budget'.

Option 2) Find a Graphic Designer. Establish a brief and AGREE to the quote offered. Wait for the designer to work on the ideas, research your needs, establish costs and the best way to look after your identity / artwork(s). After a period of at least 2-3 weeks+ and a few meetings to ensure you are happy with the work in progress, expect a professional identity / artwork(s). Pay the agreed fee. Receive the final artwork, and do not, DO NOT expect a pleasant reply if you NOW inform the designer that you are on a limited budget. If this is the case maybe Option 1 was the better idea.

[Jamesmarsh]

I honestly can't see that I have done anything wrong here. I have been up front about my budget and needs, if anyone thinks they can do me a logo within those constraints and make a profit then they should drop me an email. If on the other hand you decide that you can't really do the logo within that budget or that your business is doing well enough that you don't need to take on small projects then don't email me.

To answer the point about expecting designers to lower their prices but not other professions that is utter rubbish. When my old firm was very busy I would never consider dropping my prices, but when we were quiet, or when the client was one I wanted then I would be very willing to negotiate on price. You should speak to your service providers!

[Paul Murray]

I don't think the replies aren't aimed specifically at you James. You came here looking for help but sadly became the unfortunate individual who got in the firing line.

Please understand that the design industry is suffering slightly at the minute due to amateurs offering sub-par work at a vastly reduced price that clients see as value for money, which sadly means professional designers' experience and expertise are being undervalued.

Obviously you're here looking for someone to design a quick logo for you within your budget, which I'm sure you will find (which in turn is the problem many of the professional members of these boards have).

[dedwardp]

Great point well made. My business is insured. I still pay premium insurance. I still pay my accountants hourly rate. I still pay what my printer asks. So why should I quote less to get a job?

It happens all too often. I understand that as a start-up it's tough, but it's just as tough for a design start-up and I wouldn't have dreamed of asking any of the examples I listed above to lower their rates.

It's just a case of getting on with it. You have to find ways round to pay the bills. It's like the old credit card chestnut, if you cant pay for it, then don't buy it. Same applies.

Exactly, and so many people will switch to that cheaper gas company or Primark or look to the discounted book shop.

This is no different. If some people want to work at what others see as being a lower rate then let them, they can be that cheaper deal just like in any other market there is.

I do completely agree with the general notion that it can drive overall prices down and I do think it is underselling but, likewise, I still think there can be a place in the market.

[Ian Bonner]

To answer the point about expecting designers to lower their prices but not other professions that is utter rubbish. When my old firm was very busy I would never consider dropping my prices, but when we were quiet, or when the client was one I wanted then I would be very willing to negotiate on price. You should speak to your service providers!

Paul was right it wasn't specifically aimed at you, but you have just seemed to throw the cat amongst the pigeons.

You just said that when you WERE busy you would never consider dropping your prices. That's the point right there, when you WERE VERY BUSY. The problem is, is that so many clients like yourself are coming and wanting work on the cheap that it has now made the market ULTRA competitive, forcing us to drop prices because of the 'budget designers' offering work for next to nothing, making clients think that is the norm. This in turn is spreading the work, in my opinion unfairly, to pseudo designers, making us all fight for the scraps we can get. These designers are not experienced, they have a computer and can download clipart. Thats as good as it gets. The experienced designers here HAVE ALREADY dropped their rates and are now being asked to do so again to accommodate a 'limited budget'.

If we were all making a fair living out of our work then maybe we would be in a position to, as you say, occasionally drop our prices. But as you and many others want something for nothing, that now, through no fault of our own is increasingly unlikely.