"It costs what it costs"

Bmap

New Member
Hi all,

So I've got a great client, bit of business guru, doing ok financially but not rich and he's asked me to do an A5 planner/book.

I always struggle with costing and the advice is ususally; note how long it takes and charge your hourly rate.

Now that's all well and good but I've totted up all the hours spent and the cost for what is essentially a relatively simple planner is £840. This includes the initial meeting, mockups, revisions, dealing with the printers (but not the printing cost), time spent emailing and phone meetings etc.
Eg: Everything.
FWIW, it's probably the first time I've kept track of all the time spent working on a project not just the time working in design software.

I've mentioned it could be a relatively high invoice and his words were 'it costs what it costs'.

I don't feel comfortable charging that but the reason I'm making this post is: would you tell your client the 'real' cost (£840) and let them know they're getting a deal?

I've done a fair bit of work for him, he's my main client (not many eggs in the basket) so I don't want to rock the boat too much.

What would you do?

Thanks for any and all opinions ;)
 
I normally put a quote in at the start (we all have a rough idea of the time a project will take) and then it's up to them if they take me on at that price... so it 'costs what it costs' seems appropriate here.

Without knowing the full details the price you mentioned could actually be relatively cheap, based on the average price per hour of a graphic design you're looking at around 5 days of work at most. So look at it a different way, if you've spent 5 days on it due to revisions etc then there's not really much to complain about... if you've spent more days then he's likely getting a deal at that price.

One thing you have to get past when running a business, especially when you get 'familiar' with the client is the worry about that quote/invoice. While you obviously want to keep them happy the moment you start giving discounts is the moment you lose control over your prices. Now that's not to say you can't offer a 'small' discount if it's a longer term project or say a retainer (I offer a small discount on retainers as it's guaranteed income and give 'less paperwork' as the reason if they ask) but it's not something I'd be doing for individual jobs.
 
Thanks Levi.

It's something I've always struggled with and despite my numerous searches (on many separate occasions) it seems design costing is still a dark art.

The trouble is all the other crap that goes along with it, revisions, phonecalls, emails, problem solving, dealing with printers, making artwork fit without guide files etc.

Some advice you see says to up your hourly rate to compensate for these elements of the work but only charge design time but I always seem to be under-selling my services (including consultation and advice) when comparing myself to other companies.

I'm only one guy basically but I put out good work and I work fast without much need for revisions (unless there's a lack of info or the client changes their mind). Because of this and the fact my overheads are low I guess I can be cheaper and I don't want to take advantage of people or potentially risk losing them.

The trouble is there's such a wide range of design costs not only based on the job but also the type of client.

But anyway, enough rambling. ;)

I can't charge £840 for what it is, that's too much for the job and the client.

So you reckon don't let the client know they're getting a good deal and just charge a fair price? My natural instinct is to 'haggle' with people are arrive at a cost together so they feel like they're getting a good deal, maybe that's something I need to stop doing...
 
The trouble is all the other crap that goes along with it, revisions, phonecalls, emails, problem solving, dealing with printers, making artwork fit without guide files etc.
This is all stuff that takes you away from another client and their 'paying work' so it goes on the bill. ANYTHING for a client that requires your time is something you charge for, it's that simple really. Now I'm not saying I'd necessarily charge individually for the telephone calls/emails to the client/printers but sticking an extra hour or two onto your job to cover things like phone calls, meetings etc isn't unheard of. Fixing art work for the printer... find a better printer with the correct info you need... we've got several good companies that do printing here on the forum :)

I'm only one guy basically but I put out good work and I work fast without much need for revisions (unless there's a lack of info or the client changes their mind). Because of this and the fact my overheads are low I guess I can be cheaper and I don't want to take advantage of people or potentially risk losing them.
There is a thing called being 'too cheap' and I bet you don't fully realise just how much of your income you lose covering things like electricity/heating at home (assuming home office) not to mention software/hardware etc, it soon adds up and lets be honest adobe etc isn't cheap these days.

The trouble is there's such a wide range of design costs not only based on the job but also the type of client.
past experience gives you an idea of how long something will take, this gives you a guide for pricing. Set up templates for things you do often so it makes life easier and quicker.

I can't charge £840 for what it is, that's too much for the job and the client.
why not? Unless you didn't know what you were doing and needed extra time to 'learn the process' then that price is correct for the time you spent on the job based on your hourly rate.

So you reckon don't let the client know they're getting a good deal and just charge a fair price? My natural instinct is to 'haggle' with people are arrive at a cost together so they feel like they're getting a good deal, maybe that's something I need to stop doing...
Never ever haggle over the price at the end... basically a fair price is hourly rate x number of hours. Ideally you should be trying to 'agree costs' and taking part payment before you start.
Personally when I do work I usually give a price before I start a project and the client takes it or leaves it. If they take it I require a part payment up front to begin with the rest paid on completion.

The price I quote is a price that covers the expected cost of the project based on my previous experiences and is essentially a price I'm happy doing the project for and covers my overheads along with my 'wages' and taxes/NI. Ideally I get the work finished within my estimated time frame or earlier but if I go over due to a miscalculation then the client gets a 'better deal'. Obviously there are clauses to cover things where I can increase the cost if it takes longer due to changes by the client etc.
 
I was in a situation similar to yours recently where I had a client query the amount on an invoice for the first time in our history of working together. The amount was £700 and I did think that felt high when I was adding up the time but sent it over anyway. The client accepted they should have requested an estimate first but wondered if there was anything we could do about the cost. Considering this is the first time they've asked in 3 years of working together and the amount was high because of me (i.e. not from them faffing or requesting changes) we agreed to invoice for 2 days which the client was happy with (or rather their accounting department was).

Was this bad business sense? Some would say yes, that I undermined my profession by reducing an invoice after the work was done. But I only did it because I wanted to maintain a good working relationship with the client as they bring me a lot of work. Had it been for a new client I would have agreed on a cost beforehand so the situation wouldn't have arisen. In hindsight, it's often a good idea to keep a client updated on costs, but truth is sometimes you get so used to working with someone who's happy to pay your costs that it can be easy to forget that they do still have a budget and other costs to factor in.

If I were you I'd send an itemised invoice showing design time, expenses for materials if you used any, time for calls, meetings, etc and let the client query it if they wish. You might be worrying about nothing and they might just pay it without question.
 
Some solid advice, thanks.

I'm generally quite good with sorting out a price up front and securing a 50% deposit (particularly with new clients) but I didn't this time and it's not the kind of project I'd done before, lots of laborious tables and forms replicated over 4 quarters. There was a fair bit of back-and-forth and I should have asked him to sketch pages out by hand at the beginning of the process instead of wasting time spinning my wheels.

I've been doing this a fair few years now and it's still a learning process. Something I never do is say no to something I haven't done before, naturally I adjust my hourly rate accordingly but you're basically being paid to learn something new and it's another service you can add to the roster ;)

I'm sure you're right Paul, he probably would pay an £800 invoice, he's nice like that but I don't want to abuse the trust I carefully build with clients. I'll be ok with £480 and he should be too, there's a lot more work coming hopefully.

I also work with a marketing company in the US as head design consultant and they resell my work at 100% markup (albeit bigger clients). That company is growing nicely, hopefully moving into larger corporations and governmental work, that's where the big buck lay ;)

Thanks again for the input it's much appreciated.
 
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