[chris_17]

Yeah but surely knowing some of the new aspects of CSS3 for example would be advantageous as a designer?

If you look at most big agencies they require very good HTML & CSS knowledge. Clearleft (I think it was them) who are a pretty big agency were advertising a few weeks ago for a designer, even though they wouldn't touch a single piece of code they had to have very good and competent knowledge of HTML and CSS.

Personally I class myself as a designer & developer simply because I've created web applications for clients and have a good knowledge of languages such as Ruby, PHP etc. As well as designing for the web and print etc.

I don't think of HTML and CSS being a development process.

Also a lot of my design process is based around designing in the browser as I know are a lot of other designers.

I personally dont think a designer should be a coder, lets face it, you'll only end up designing websites that meet your HTML/CSS knowledge set rather than creating somethingcutting edge and letting a coder/developer find a way of making it work.

I completely disagree. If there was something I wanted to do in a design but didn't know how that'd make me want to go and find how to do it. Rather than just being lazy and thinking oh well I won't bother.

The phrase Jack of all but master of none comes to mind.

Ethan Marcotte. Shaun Inman.

Finally, HTML and CSS are easy to learn, but you shouldn't just rely on Photoshop and Illustrator to tell you what the site looks like because when it's in the browser it looks different (text rendering etc), plus you'll have greater control over your site.

[bigdave]

I understand what youre saying but if I was given £500k worth of printing press and an online instruction manual, I could probably print you a full colour leaflet but I couldnt produce a genuine masterpiece because I dont have the experience that someone who has dedicated themself to the printing process can offer. The same goes for a designer who learns code. Yeah, you can produce a website, yeah you can think outside the coding box but you aren't the best because youre not dedicated to that dicipline and its every advancement. If your not the best at what you do, youre selling your client short. far better to work with a coder than try and be the coder!


On a side note, I dont want to split hairs but how can you label yourself as a designer / developer when by your own admission you dont see HTML and CSS as a development process?

[chris_17]

Originally Posted by bigdave

I understand what youre saying but if I was given £500k worth of printing press and an online instruction manual, I could probably print you a full colour leaflet but I couldnt produce a genuine masterpiece because I dont have the experience that someone who has dedicated themself to the printing process can offer. The same goes for a designer who learns code. Yeah, you can produce a website, yeah you can think outside the coding box but you aren't the best because youre not dedicated to that dicipline and its every advancement. If your not the best at what you do, youre selling your client short. far better to work with a coder than try and be the coder!


On a side note, I dont want to split hairs but how can you label yourself as a designer / developer when by your own admission you dont see HTML and CSS as a development process?

No for me I see the HTML/CSS Dev side of things as a design process because I like to get in the browser as quickly as possible.

Development to me in backend dev or ruby coding, like developing a web app. Many of my clients who want development or other developers outsourcing work want Ruby development, PHP, Phython, not HTML, to me that falls under the design category.

far better to work with a coder than try and be the coder!

Yeah for more advanced languages but not for things like HTML and CSS because they're easy to pickup and learning them will keep you far more in control of your designs.

I am a freelance Graphic Design who eventually wants a full time job as a Graphic Designer. I have been advised that you are more employable if you have a range of skills within a design role rather than one. This does make sense to me because you can help your team out in other areas rather than the one you are specialised in. And most job ads these days say at the bottom if you know HTML it is an advantage. i.e. you have a better chance of being considered. This also aplies to other work industries. Someone who is multi skilled can be a valuable asset to any company.

[jamieDnm]

I think it is a dereliction of duty for any graphic designer to not educate themselves in web or at least some form of multimedia design. Print is a dying media. HTML and CSS are just more tools with which to express your design. Who said a graphic designer must work exclusively in print?

I know that a specialist web designer/developer will be able to produce more technically advanced websites than me and will be able to do it quicker and probably less buggy in the first build. That doesn't mean that I can't offer nice, well-designed, intuitive, standards-compliant web design with a decent degree of sophistication and I recognise that in my own business. If a client wants graphic design, simple web design or iPhone-optimised web design then I can offer it. If not, I outsource it to another company.

[SparkCreative]

Originally Posted by jamieDnm

Print is a dying media.

Absolute nonsense. I hear this trotted out all the time. The web is just another tool. It's taken business from print, but print is far from dead. You just use the right tool for the right target.

Originally Posted by jamieDnm

Who said a graphic designer must work exclusively in print?

Nobody. I do agree that designers should acquaint themselves with every tool available to them, and then choose the best one. But I don't think it's necessary to become an expert in everything. As an Art Director, if you need an illustrator, a photographer, a printmaker, etc, - someone who does something that you can't, or does it better than you - you hire one. It's the same with web design.