The ex-client!

[Ian Bonner]

Yeah but as far as they were concerned they obtained the artwork they required without paying the full fee. They have asked her to supply files they already had, and are not asking for any further work to be undertaken.

Maybe a way round it is to sell them the copyright to the work for the remaining fee. The only downside to this would be that she couldn't show the work in any self promoting material, ie. websites, portfolios or presentations. At the moment the copyright is shared but by offering to transfer full ownership to them you could ask for the remaining fee. I include this in my terms and conditions because many clients do not realise that the designer is still the legal owner of the work and some also do not like their work to be used for self promotion for the designer. If they want ownership then they have to obtain it.

Could be a way around a difficult situation.

[Ian Bonner]

Please don't think I'm siding with them here!

What they have asked for is wrong but unfortunately they hold the cards at the moment as no contract was made. They have found themselves in a situation and are using their rights by the look of it.

It makes me sick to be honest because too many clients these days want something for nothing and normally get it.

[Dave L]

Yeah but as far as they were concerned they obtained the artwork they required without paying the full fee. They have asked her to supply files they already had, and are not asking for any further work to be undertaken.

Even locating a file and attaching it to an email is work if you're not happy doing it as a favour; it requires you to retain proper records (work) and allocate time to the task (more work).

[Dave L]

What they have asked for is wrong but unfortunately they hold the cards at the moment as no contract was made. They have found themselves in a situation and are using their rights by the look of it.

If they hold any cards (assuming they haven't lost those too), I can't see that they make a winning hand. What rights are we talking about exactly? Is a designer required to keep copies of work once it's been completed and supplied to the client's satisfaction?

[Ian Bonner]

If they hold any cards (assuming they haven't lost those too), I can't see that they make a winning hand. What rights are we talking about exactly? Is a designer required to keep copies of work once it's been completed and supplied to the client's satisfaction?

I believe a designer should retain the files once a job is completed, yes. Everywhere I have worked it has been commonplace to archive everything.

As they are the ones with finished artwork having paid half the costs then as far as they are concerned, they have got what they have asked for, at a price that they find acceptable.

They see it as job done because half the costs were accepted as, in their eyes, final payment, everything was done and dusted. So they are coming back now, and as I said before, cheekily asking for copies of artwork that was the result of a finished job. If the payment they gave wasn't enough THAT was the time to say 'hold on, thats only half the fee!'. They know exactly what they are doing but they are flexing their muscles. It's wrong but what can you do?

I think it's now too late to ask for the remaining half if it hadn't been brought up as being a part payment in the first place.

[Dave L]

I believe a designer should retain the files once a job is completed, yes. Everywhere I have worked it has been commonplace to archive everything.

I obviously agree with this and am sure it will have been done in this case; however, while it's good professional practice, so is paying the agreed price on satisfactory completion. I'd play hardball with these spanners: it's not like I'd want to work with them again and if you want to get arsey to secure yourself a post-delivery knock-down price, you can't seriously expect top-end aftercare.

[hotzigidi]

i would treat this as if there was a contract. I would email back telling them that you will not provide any further services or files untill full payment has been made.

if they decide to go legal on you, the only grounds they have is a verbal contract, which will prove that the work was done by you and that they owe you money.

I hope you get your money

[Katedesign]

A verbal contract is still a contract. If they said they would pay you £100 and have only paid £50 and you have completed the work they are the one breaking the contract. Stick to your guns. As was said much earlier you don't really want to work for these guys again. . . If they pay up (and make sure the cheque clears) then do the work. And then tell them that you won't be working for them again.

[john watters]

A verbal contract (in the view of a client that intends to cause a problem) is only worth having
if you have a witness to that discussion, and is willing to stand up in a courtroom and voice it.

Otherwise it is the old 'my word against yours' never ending communication tennis.

Get your terms upfront and how and when you expect to get paid, for what and if they don't agree,
then you are forewarned. Especially a new client, if new 50% upfront and the balance on delivery, by Bank
transfer (on receipt of invoice). In this case be sure there are no 'extras' and state that any extras will be quoted on prior to commencing 'extra' work.


You work for money as well, kid's can't eat promises.

[PrintingManchester]

I appreciate this is an old thread... but my response would have been to say you will look in your file archives for their missing files but mention they must pay all overdue money in full within 7 days as its long overdue.

They will know you're waiting to get paid before sending the files, which you prob have on hand, but its less confrontational than refusing to send the files outright and they might pay you all money owed - if the value of the missing files is higher.

Ultimately people who don't pay for agreed work are scum (assuming they don't have a good reason not to pay that hasn't been mentioned).